radar Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I was concentrating on the 'offensive' war bit, as that is the bit that concerns me. I've no problem with defence.So which offensive war are you referring to in reality, the one in Afghanistan where thousands civilians have been killed or the Iraqi war where more than a Million have been slaughtered? Or is it war in your own head that hasn't taken place and is not likely to but you may as well use it to max advantage just till the next nappy change hey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounce Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I was concentrating on the 'offensive' war bit, as that is the bit that concerns me. I've no problem with defence. please refer to post 77 as I have given the answer in said post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Oh poor you, please come out from under the desk and stop the trolling by making up scenarios just to back up your own agenda. It's not a particularly far-fetched question. Do you want me to do some research and make it a historical question instead? I think it's perfectly valid as it is. Your mocking tone doesn't change the validity of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radar Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I'm not denying there are bits in the Koran (or the bible) that I like. There doesn't seem much point in discussing those though. I don't think anyone would disagree with the idea that we should try and be nice to each other, and both religions do say that. What I am talking about is the bits in both holy books where God encourages wars and killing. I'm not portraying Muslims as having a lust for killing. I am expressing concern that the holy book of Islam provides amply justification for killing to those that wish to find it - as does the bible. Having your land invaded by foreign forces and your families killed have provided enough incentive to young men who have have been born into refugee camps of Afghanistan to volunteer themselves for any almost any act that would provide revenge against the invaders. It's not Islam but injustice that is cause of the problem, injustice of war based on lies, injustice where the victim is blamed for their own misery and their religion portrayed as evil, the problem is closer to home than we are prepared to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 So which offensive war are you referring to in reality, the one in Afghanistan where thousands civilians have been killed or the Iraqi war where more than a Million have been slaughtered? Or is it war in your own head that hasn't taken place and is not likely to but you may as well use it to max advantage just till the next nappy change hey? Nope, you've lost me. The Koran allows for the killing of people who fight against Islam. It also allows for Muslims to fight to take other lands - which will, inevitably, lead to the people already in those lands fighting back, and thus being 'legitimately' killed. I'm trying to establish what is allowed and what isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radar Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 It's not a particularly far-fetched question. Do you want me to do some research and make it a historical question instead? I think it's perfectly valid as it is. Your mocking tone doesn't change the validity of the question. I would love to see this killer question of yet another made up scenario, but please make it so that we can relate to it rather than totally hypo-pathetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I am expressing concern that the holy book of Islam provides amply justification for killing to those that wish to find it - as does the bible. I think that's a good point. How do the muslims here, reconcile, on the one hand, blind acceptance of the koran, and on the other, trusting your own gut-instinct, and intuition, to inform you what's right and wrong? I think that's a worry for many people of a non-religious inclination; is people having a tendency to throw self-trust, and rationality out of the window, to follow stuff written (in a now out-of-date) book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radar Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Nope, you've lost me. The Koran allows for the killing of people who fight against Islam. It also allows for Muslims to fight to take other lands - which will, inevitably, lead to the people already in those lands fighting back, and thus being 'legitimately' killed. I'm trying to establish what is allowed and what isn't. If you just give us a clue as to which Muslim army you are referring to then we might have a better understanding of your question as the last Muslim army was of the Ottomans:huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Having your land invaded by foreign forces and your families killed have provided enough incentive to young men who have have been born into refugee camps of Afghanistan to volunteer themselves for any almost any act that would provide revenge against the invaders. It's not Islam but injustice that is cause of the problem, injustice of war based on lies, injustice where the victim is blamed for their own misery and their religion portrayed as evil, the problem is closer to home than we are prepared to admit. I don't deny that oppression leads people to do all sorts of heinous things in revenge. I understand that completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radar Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think that's a good point. How do the muslims here, reconcile, on the one hand, blind acceptance of the koran, and on the other, trusting your own gut-instinct, and intuition, to inform you what's right and wrong? I think that's a worry for many people of a non-religious inclination; is people having a tendency to throw self-trust, and rationality out of the window, to follow stuff written (in a now out-of-date) book. :hihi:You have followed the discussion well haven't you, well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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