perplexed Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 IMO cyclist are much worse at flounting the rules than car drivers, I usually see well over 50% of cyclist disregarding redlights and highway code, I see no where near that % of car drivers doing the same. Remember there are a hell of alot more cars on the road than cycles so your bound to see more car drivers breaking the rules, but when you make this into a %, it shows that cyclists are the worst offenders. Bold bit. I don't when I'm out and about driving and cycling. Lots... Some cyclists do, yes. Equally, some drivers do. Your second paragraph. Have a drive along the ring road, particularly the bit between the Lightwood aerodrome roundabout and the Norton roundabout. Do that bit at exactly 40 mph, the legal limit. Particularly do it at rush hour. Count the cars that shoot past you. They'll all be speeding. By a considerable margin. Show me a driver who says he/she's never ever broken the speed limit. I'll put a not inconsiderable sum on them being economical with the truth. So I would wager that 100% of drivers or as near as makes no difference have been law breakers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I’ve seen a few documentaries/news stories on cyclists being harassed/verbally abused/assaulted by angry drivers who seem to be offended at having to share their space on the road with someone else, especially a cyclist. Seeing the head cam footage of some of the stuff has been scary and quite rightly, the assailants have been up in court. However my question is this: Do some cyclists bring it on themselves? This isn’t a question designed to stir up anger (but I fear it will anyway) but through discussions with friends and family and personal experience I have noticed some worrying behaviour from cyclists. Take this morning for example, I was approaching a T-junction and had stopped at the “Stop” sign (not a giveway sign) and there was a line of 4 cars approaching when a cyclist appeared from behind me and carried straight on through the stop sign without appearing to slow down. Now the speed he was travelling caused him to ride into the middle of the road meaning the line of cars had to brake unnecessarily… Last weekend I was out in the Peak District and the number of cyclists who ride two even 3 abreast is unbelievable. I know there are probably more bikes than cars on the roads up there at weekends but cyclists should not be riding like this anywhere! Finally and perhaps worst was an example given to me by a friend is of a guy on a bike who ran a red light and was hit by a car coming through a set of lights at 90 degrees to him. Thankfully no one was injured but the cyclist had the cheek to blame the car driver despite running the red light. I have seen cyclists show a blatant disregard for red lights all to often, as I’m sure many of you have. This isn’t to say that cyclists are demons and most of them do seem to take their safety into account at all times but when things do go wrong everyone is quick to blame the driver when in actual fact it isn’t always that simple. Any thoughts? Do any of these examples of poor road behaviour by a cyclist somehow justify assault? That's what you seem to be suggesting... As a cyclist, I've shouted at other cyclists who run red lights. It annoys the hell out of me because it makes hard of thinking drivers believe that all cyclists do it. I don't run red lights in my car and I don't run them on my bike. But if I did, it still wouldn't make it okay for someone to assault me, or try to deliberately run me down with a vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 An idiot being someone who dares suggest cyclists are capable of riding dangerously? No, of course they are. There are certainly examples of poor cyclists around in Sheffield. Most cyclists are of course drivers as well, and I can only assume that they are equally poor when in a car. Spindrift is unusual though, in that he thinks cyclists can do no wrong. He argued until we were blue in the face about how many cyclists I saw in London running red lights, which was a huge number of them, far more than in Sheffield. I was apparently wrong though, imagining looking out of the office window and seeing them cycle through pedestrian crossings with red lights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treatment Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Do Traffic Lights apply to cyclists ? You learn something new every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 IMO cyclist are much worse at flounting the rules than car drivers, I usually see well over 50% of cyclist disregarding redlights and highway code, I see no where near that % of car drivers doing the same. Remember there are a hell of alot more cars on the road than cycles so your bound to see more car drivers breaking the rules, but when you make this into a %, it shows that cyclists are the worst offenders. Different rules they choose to break (I'm agreeing with the post after yours). I don't get the red light runners though, the person they put most at risk is themselves. I'd rather stop and have to start again than get killed. And as a driver I chance more ambers than when on my bike, and I definitely break the speed limit more often! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonjon Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Bold bit. I don't when I'm out and about driving and cycling. Lots... Some cyclists do, yes. Equally, some drivers do. Your second paragraph. Have a drive along the ring road, particularly the bit between the Lightwood aerodrome roundabout and the Norton roundabout. Do that bit at exactly 40 mph, the legal limit. Particularly do it at rush hour. Count the cars that shoot past you. They'll all be speeding. By a considerable margin. Show me a driver who says he/she's never ever broken the speed limit. I'll put a not inconsiderable sum on them being economical with the truth. So I would wager that 100% of drivers or as near as makes no difference have been law breakers... Equally show me a cyclist who has never ridden on the pavement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 As we speak there's a muppet on this thread having a rant about cyclists paying road tax and insurance! There will always be, of course. I just choose to ignore them, maybe most other (rational and/or less emotive) posters should - the 'muppets' would soon get the message The cyclist-vs-drivers threads always amuse me (as does spindrift, to a greater extent ), as just-as-symptomatic of the general lack of tolerance these days. Observable in many other thread types, e.g. civil service-vs-private sector, labour-vs-condems, xenophobes-vs-multiculturalists, etc. Maybe I'm starting to get over my SF addiction I have certainly experienced worse mishaps (caused by other drivers) on two wheels than in four. But then again that was in Dublin city centre, over four years or so, always at rush hour (AM/PM) so that's got to count as a multiplying factor (if you think the general driving/cycling standard is bad in Sheffield, never mind London, you really want to try it there ). As an experienced car driver, I would say the principal issue for drivers, with cyclists, is peripheral vision (as curtailed by the car configuration/driving position) and awareness (as curtailed by the driver's personal (in-)aptitude, the car's sound-proofing, etc). I've had a couple of spats with cyclists in the past 2 years: everytime it's been a cyclist coming up from behind quite fast (>20 mph) whilst I was driving (20 mph) and indicating to turn left in a queue of cars, with the cyclist somehow believing that I had to stop my turning manoeuver to let them pass me on the inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 IMO cyclist are much worse at flounting the rules than car drivers, I usually see well over 50% of cyclist disregarding redlights and highway code, I see no where near that % of car drivers doing the same. Remember there are a hell of alot more cars on the road than cycles so your bound to see more car drivers breaking the rules, but when you make this into a %, it shows that cyclists are the worst offenders. Currently the score is 3000 deaths a year by drivers, on average half a death a year by cyclists. In many roads in London cyclists are the majority, Blackfriars Bridge for instance. And risky behaviour by cyclists is rarely the cause of an accident, see the link upthread. You're talking rubbish. Put it this way, according to you more cyclists should automatically mean more accidents, right/ Wrong. It's the other way round. The more cyclists on the roads, the safer the roads become: International research reveals that as cycling participation increases, a cyclist is far less likely to collide with a motor vehicle or suffer injury and death - and what's true for cyclists is true for pedestrians. And it's not simply because there are fewer cars on the roads, but because motorists seem to change their behaviour and drive more safely when they see more cyclists and pedestrians around. Studies in many countries have shown consistently that the number of motorists colliding with walkers or cyclists doesn't increase equally with the number of people walking or bicycling. For example, a community that doubles its cycling numbers can expect a one-third drop in the per-cyclist frequency of a crash with a motor vehicle. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080903112034.htm Base your opinion on facts, not prejudice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Spindrift is unusual though, in that he thinks cyclists can do no wrong. So, when my very first post in this thread points out that cyclists are to blame in up to a quarter of RTCS, you interpret this as my saying they are blameless. :loopy::loopy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Do Traffic Lights apply to cyclists ? You learn something new every day. You cycle to work. You approach traffic lights, and a lorry's behind you. If you stay and wait at the red light and the lorry driver fails to see you and kills you, the driver will get a £300 fine and no ban. Jumping the red light is safer: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23393622-male-cyclists-who-jump-red-lights-are-safer.do More cyclists have been killed by cars jumping red lights than pedestrians killed by cyclists in any circumstances whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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