Grahame Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I’m not blaming other people, God created the environment, God created the person with DNA making them more predisposed to violence, and God gave him the unloving violent parents, God chose not to tell him about forgiveness. Then according to you god will choose to punish him. Not fair, not just, not loving. This brings me back to this; if god exists then God is both God and Satin at the same time. Yeh, like you can have wooden iron, and hot ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomdido Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 What if God is really Satan? How would you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 And the choices you make are determined by how you were built (DNA) and the environment you were brought up in. If God gives one child loving caring parents and good DNA and they turn out good, he rewards them. If God gives another child crap violent parents and rubbish DNA and they turn out bad he punishes them. So God isn’t a fair God. God knows this and has provided a solution called forgiveness. So, god forgives my former neighbours' children for having to be taken into care, in order to protect them from the neglectful, feckless imbeciles they had to call their parents? My schoolfriend is forgiven for being raped by, and having a child to, her paedophile father, is she? Why do they need forgiveness for the sins of others? well from your response, I'm trying to figure the same thing out. You were the one who said:- God knows this and has provided a solution called forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 well from your response, I'm trying to figure the same thing out. You were the one who said:- What it boils down to is that regardless of who or what we are we have all offended people at one time or another and at the same time other people have harmed, hurt and offended us. What are we to do, store it up for the rest of our life, brood over it and let resentment build up or are we to deal with it and bring it to a conclusion and hopefully restore friendship and relationship. If that cannot be done at least a lot of hurt and bad feeling has been dealt with and it feels like a load has been removed from off our back. It needs for us to be honest with ourselves and for us to take ownership of our part in the affair whether it was through stubbornness, selfishness, a foolish act or for any other reason. For our own sake and the sake of others it needs to be dealt with and whether it is only perceived or real, where there are barriers forgiveness breaks them down. Whatever the reason for the barrier between people, although it cannot be seen, weighed or measured and so according to the atheist who does not believe in God does not exist never-the-less is very real and it needs to be dealt with, and the same goes for our relationship with God because just as there are barriers between ourselves and others, even though they are invisible, so to there are barriers between ourselves and God which are self imposed. Oftentimes it means a breaking down of the barrier that is within our own heart and accepting the fact that we are sinners and asking those we have sinned against including God to forgive us which means repenting of our own wrong doing. Fortunately for us God is always ready and willing to forgive us our sins and we are promised in Hebrews 8:12 that God will “forgive our wickedness and will remember our sins no more.” We are reminded of the words of Jesus who said “Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” Luke 7.48-50 and these words remind us of Jeremiah in Lamentations 3.22-23 who said “The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning” for which I thank God. May God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 What it boils down to is that regardless of who or what we are we have all offended people at one time or another and at the same time other people have harmed, hurt and offended us. What are we to do, store it up for the rest of our life, brood over it and let resentment build up or are we to deal with it and bring it to a conclusion and hopefully restore friendship and relationship. If that cannot be done at least a lot of hurt and bad feeling has been dealt with and it feels like a load has been removed from off our back. It needs for us to be honest with ourselves and for us to take ownership of our part in the affair whether it was through stubbornness, selfishness, a foolish act or for any other reason. For our own sake and the sake of others it needs to be dealt with and whether it is only perceived or real, where there are barriers forgiveness breaks them down. This is what I've been saying (sort of) for years and which you recently seem to have adopted (a good thing, by the way!). But, this should have nothing to do with god; we should all be trying to better our relationships - I can't see how any of this has anything to do with god; forgiveness comes from within; one should not seek approval or atonement from another. Maybe this attitude is why the world's churches are filled with corruption, because people can shift the responsibility onto another...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 This is what I've been saying (sort of) for years and which you recently seem to have adopted (a good thing, by the way!). But, this should have nothing to do with god; we should all be trying to better our relationships - I can't see how any of this has anything to do with god; forgiveness comes from within; one should not seek approval or atonement from another. Maybe this attitude is why the world's churches are filled with corruption, because people can shift the responsibility onto another...? Forgiveness one for another is so important for anyone and of course for believers there is no salvation without the forgiveness of God which is why our hearts need to be right with him. But if you don't mind what comes through very strongly in your post is your hypocrisy because if you read all the religious threads, what the atheists do all the time is to say how good they are and talk about humanism without admitting that all the bad stuff that is happening in the world around us is caused by mankind. Then to top it all, everything that is wrong in the world according to the people on here is all God's fault and nothing to do with humankind who are actually doing it. My my aren't you the goody goody little hypocrite shifting the blame onto God, who you don't believe in anyway. Talk about shifting the responsibility! People are responsible!! OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andikay Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 What it boils down to is that regardless of who or what we are we have all offended people at one time or another and at the same time other people have harmed, hurt and offended us. What are we to do, store it up for the rest of our life, brood over it and let resentment build up or are we to deal with it and bring it to a conclusion and hopefully restore friendship and relationship. If that cannot be done at least a lot of hurt and bad feeling has been dealt with and it feels like a load has been removed from off our back. It needs for us to be honest with ourselves and for us to take ownership of our part in the affair whether it was through stubbornness, selfishness, a foolish act or for any other reason. For our own sake and the sake of others it needs to be dealt with and whether it is only perceived or real, where there are barriers forgiveness breaks them down. Whatever the reason for the barrier between people, although it cannot be seen, weighed or measured and so according to the atheist who does not believe in God does not exist never-the-less is very real and it needs to be dealt with, and the same goes for our relationship with God because just as there are barriers between ourselves and others, even though they are invisible, so to there are barriers between ourselves and God which are self imposed. Oftentimes it means a breaking down of the barrier that is within our own heart and accepting the fact that we are sinners and asking those we have sinned against including God to forgive us which means repenting of our own wrong doing. Fortunately for us God is always ready and willing to forgive us our sins and we are promised in Hebrews 8:12 that God will “forgive our wickedness and will remember our sins no more.” We are reminded of the words of Jesus who said “Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” Luke 7.48-50 and these words remind us of Jeremiah in Lamentations 3.22-23 who said “The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning” for which I thank God. May God bless. The barrier preventing people forgiving someone for doing them arm can be seen in the actions of the people concerned. Just as love and ate can be seen and measured in the action of people.. If a person has never been told of God, knows nothing of God or about asking for forgiveness and the surrounding were not of their making. They cannot choose to ask for forgiveness because God hasn’t chosen to inform them of his existence. The barriers between this person and God are imposed by God, just as the barriers between a child and father would be imposed by the mother if she chooses not to tell the child who the father is. In your world you blame the child for not knowing the father. In your world God is ready to forgive people but God isn’t ready to treat all people fairly because God doesn’t give everyone an equal opportunity to know him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 The barrier preventing people forgiving someone for doing them arm can be seen in the actions of the people concerned. Just as love and ate can be seen and measured in the action of people.. If a person has never been told of God, knows nothing of God or about asking for forgiveness and the surrounding were not of their making. They cannot choose to ask for forgiveness because God hasn’t chosen to inform them of his existence. The barriers between this person and God are imposed by God, just as the barriers between a child and father would be imposed by the mother if she chooses not to tell the child who the father is. In your world you blame the child for not knowing the father. In your world God is ready to forgive people but God isn’t ready to treat all people fairly because God doesn’t give everyone an equal opportunity to know him. Right from the beginning of time people have believed in God and as with Abraham and all the other Old Testament saints, it was their faith that made them right with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Forgiveness one for another is so important for anyone and of course for believers there is no salvation without the forgiveness of God which is why our hearts need to be right with him. But if you don't mind what comes through very strongly in your post is your hypocrisy because if ..... My my aren't you the goody goody little hypocrite shifting the blame onto God, who you don't believe in anyway. Talk about shifting the responsibility! People are responsible!! OK. Woah there, cowboy! This attack on me was unnecessary, especially when you just attacked ME for the very thing I am continually promoting in my posts! Did you just feel particularly vindictive today, as you're adopting this people are responsible slant, which is what I have maintained for years on here. No Satan, no evil forces, just the light and dark of humanity. And, as for the goody goody comment, I've said all along that I do both light and dark actions... I'm totally up front with no hidden agenda and nothing to hide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andikay Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Forgiveness one for another is so important for anyone and of course for believers there is no salvation without the forgiveness of God which is why our hearts need to be right with him. But if you don't mind what comes through very strongly in your post is your hypocrisy because if you read all the religious threads, what the atheists do all the time is to say how good they are and talk about humanism without admitting that all the bad stuff that is happening in the world around us is caused by mankind. Then to top it all, everything that is wrong in the world according to the people on here is all God's fault and nothing to do with humankind who are actually doing it. My my aren't you the goody goody little hypocrite shifting the blame onto God, who you don't believe in anyway. Talk about shifting the responsibility! People are responsible!! OK. Atheists don’t believe God is responsible for the problems of the world because atheist don’t believe in God; many of the problems of the world are however caused by those people that do believe in God. Ultimately humans cause all the problems on the planet and only humans can solve them, the sooner God is taken out of the equation the sooner we will solve the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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