salsafan Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to christianity, most folklore and media, Satan is a very bad guy. But is he really? Why? Imagine 2 friends: Gordon and Sam. Gordon is older and stronger than Sam but they are still friends Gordon has big plans for a project he's been building Sam looks up to Gordon and aspires to be like him It gets a bit competitive Gordon bosses all his younger friends about, saying that they must do this and that Gordon and Sam fall out and gang up with their other friends, taking sides Gordon is still stronger than Sam and kicks him out of the playpark Gordon makes sure that everybody badmouths Sam in the neighbourhood, for all eternity. He even gets some men to write it down in a book he is currently dictating. - Does that mean that Sam is a bad person? or that he just wanted to be like Gordon? Or was he sick of Gordon and just wouldn't be bossed about? I used Gordon and Sam as examples because I don't know the exact story details of God and Satan, but In all my reading I haven't found any reason that Satan should actually be regarded as bad (prior to him being cast out of heaven, after which point is is forever painted darkly in literature due to God being in charge of what is written in the bible). Is Satan REALLY a bad person? if so, why? People say "bad" and a lot of people seems not to really want to use this word, and that they are surprised, without rationale or reason why it is thought of as such. Though, I want to show how this is seen through my eyes of what is classed as "unethical". (Therefore "bad".) - Sam should accept that Gordon is older than him, and Gordon has a role to play. - If Sam wants to be like Gordon and aspires to BE him, than he would not really shake and topple the whole project that Gordon is trying to build. Why he is trashing it by being competitive too? - If Sam was kind, generous and compassionate, why would he feel that he needs to be competitive too? Cos if he does not harbour the selfishness of himself, then surely he too can see the effect of his actions onto the project, and that, anyone being the ultimate person to achieve the goal or aim is okay too? - Gordon shouldn't boss his friends around. He should if he was benevolent, try to keep harmony and lets his friends achieve the same goal but in their own ways or terms. However, the goal still needs to be met. - Gordon is not badmouthing Sam but to record what had happened. Cos if someone else harbours bad ill-feeling about you, why would you go and play with them? When fear sets in our heart, it is what creates selfishness to happen. If we control others, through our desire, our ways, our wants, we indirectly influences someone else, and strip them off their own Free Will. Of expression, or desire, of thinking too. Then we are said to be disturbing that harmony. Therefore creating conflict in the project itself. - Sam can be seen as a bad person because he had thought of selfish needs. Which is to be the one that controls everything cos he was jealous of Gordon. Yet, Gordon was given that role to play. Sam should accept that. Because Sam has this desire within him, and he wanted it so much that, he had to fight in the end to get what he wants, it caused disharmony. So yes, therefore Sam can be said as bad. Healthy competition with both parties knowing the score is good. Unhealthy competition whereby one does not understand the other, and you start fighting, creates disharmony, and fear, and all the bad feelings within you. Once those emotions enter your mind, then you are lost, and would not really think fairly, or with compassion for someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Wow. Insult! Well done you. Love you too. Not insulting you, luv, only your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 People say "bad" and a lot of people seems not to really want to use this word, and that they are surprised, without rationale or reason why it is thought of as such. Though, I want to show how this is seen through my eyes of what is classed as "unethical". (Therefore "bad".) - Sam should accept that Gordon is older than him, and Gordon has a role to play. - If Sam wants to be like Gordon and aspires to BE him, than he would not really shake and topple the whole project that Gordon is trying to build. Why he is trashing it by being competitive too? - If Sam was kind, generous and compassionate, why would he feel that he needs to be competitive too? Cos if he does not harbour the selfishness of himself, then surely he too can see the effect of his actions onto the project, and that, anyone being the ultimate person to achieve the goal or aim is okay too? - Gordon shouldn't boss his friends around. He should if he was benevolent, try to keep harmony and lets his friends achieve the same goal but in their own ways or terms. However, the goal still needs to be met. - Gordon is not badmouthing Sam but to record what had happened. Cos if someone else harbours bad ill-feeling about you, why would you go and play with them? When fear sets in our heart, it is what creates selfishness to happen. If we control others, through our desire, our ways, our wants, we indirectly influences someone else, and strip them off their own Free Will. Of expression, or desire, of thinking too. Then we are said to be disturbing that harmony. Therefore creating conflict in the project itself. - Sam can be seen as a bad person because he had thought of selfish needs. Which is to be the one that controls everything cos he was jealous of Gordon. Yet, Gordon was given that role to play. Sam should accept that. Because Sam has this desire within him, and he wanted it so much that, he had to fight in the end to get what he wants, it caused disharmony. So yes, therefore Sam can be said as bad. Healthy competition with both parties knowing the score is good. Unhealthy competition whereby one does not understand the other, and you start fighting, creates disharmony, and fear, and all the bad feelings within you. Once those emotions enter your mind, then you are lost, and would not really think fairly, or with compassion for someone else. More assumptions.... It doesn't say that Sam DOESN'T accept that Gordon is older than him or that he wants to BE him It doesn't say anywhere that Sam tries to shake/topple/trash Gordon's project It doesn't say that EITHER of them are kind, generous, compassionate or benevolent, nor does it say either of them are selfish or jealous Gordon IS badmouthing Sam, it categorically states that in black and white text ....these are things you assumed, none of this happened in the story. IF you have assumed these things from their bible counterparts' shenanigans, would you mind giving me a link to your sources so I may study them please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 The whole idea is that, the project must go on. It is life's journey. One must also consider his own action in the long term scope of the project. How does it affect someone else, and what his action does, and if it achieve any results at all. Gordon was given or rather, destined with the role to do what he is supposed to do. Sam was also given a role, but he refused that role, and then started a fight. As Sam does not sit within the hierarchy of the project, obviously it will affect the project. If Sam did his role, and worked hard to support the project. One day Gordon may see that he has more projects and will give Sam his own project to do. It is a test of Sam's tolerance, and determination. Also, it is a test of Sams trust in Gordon too. Sam needs to learn this in order to be where Gordon is at. Sam can either recognise the test. Or he can think of himself only. When Sam does not think of himself, sometimes he may recognise the actual test put before him as destined. The skills that he must learn, builds up to be where Gordon is. Yet, if he has not proved himself, or tried, then why and how can he be as good as Gordon ? Instead, Sam let his own greed overcloud his own judgment of the situation. Sam did not know that but Gordon has been given the role to also monitor his progress and check to fill in gaps where he has missing knowledge too, to be a more rounded Sam to do Gordon's job in the future. Sam also did not know the trick to being more effective is to look inside of himself, to find compassion and happiness, which will allow him to the job so much more easily, with passion and with ease. What is inside his soul will come out into his external world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 The whole idea is that, the project must go on. It is life's journey. One must also consider his own action in the long term scope of the project. How does it affect someone else, and what his action does, and if it achieve any results at all. Gordon was given or rather, destined with the role to do what he is supposed to do. Sam was also given a role, but he refused that role, and then started a fight. As Sam does not sit within the hierarchy of the project, obviously it will affect the project. If Sam did his role, and worked hard to support the project. One day Gordon may see that he has more projects and will give Sam his own project to do. It is a test of Sam's tolerance, and determination. Also, it is a test of Sams trust in Gordon too. Sam needs to learn this in order to be where Gordon is at. Sam can either recognise the test. Or he can think of himself only. When Sam does not think of himself, sometimes he may recognise the actual test put before him as destined. The skills that he must learn, builds up to be where Gordon is. Yet, if he has not proved himself, or tried, then why and how can he be as good as Gordon ? Instead, Sam let his own greed overcloud his own judgment of the situation. Sam did not know that but Gordon has been given the role to also monitor his progress and check to fill in gaps where he has missing knowledge too, to be a more rounded Sam to do Gordon's job in the future. Sam also did not know the trick to being more effective is to look inside of himself, to find compassion and happiness, which will allow him to the job so much more easily, with passion and with ease. What is inside his soul will come out into his external world. LOL you just can't help it can you, it doesn't say who started the fight, it doesn't say that any of them had been given roles, who had more knowledge or who didn't know how to be more effective etc... for Chris's sake, you're just making it up as you go along! (I haven't told you the part about Chris yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 LOL you just can't help it can you, it doesn't say who started the fight, it doesn't say that any of them had been given roles, who had more knowledge or who didn't know how to be more effective etc... for Chris's sake, you're just making it up as you go along! (I haven't told you the part about Chris yet) Are you really sure that it is "I" who do not get it, or that you want to hear me say certain expected things ? 1. For this one we first have to assume (whether you be religious, atheist or other) that the Christian God exists and that Satan exists, so just go with it if you want to contribute. 2. If this thread starts to offend you or your beliefs in any way, you should probably stop reading it So I presume God is Gordon and Sam is Satan ??? So who is Chris then in your little story ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Are you really sure that it is "I" who do not get it, or that you want to hear me say certain expected things ? What? Do your eyes have built-in "assumavision" or something? Where have I said that you do not get it? I don't want or expect you to say ANYTHING, you've chosen to do that all by yourself. I only pointed out that the things you have assumed, don't take place in my story. So I presume God is Gordon and Sam is Satan ??? So who is Chris then in your little story ? I'm not telling you, you'll just say I said something I didn't, or that I'm being obtuse, or that I'm immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 LOL you just can't help it can you, it doesn't say who started the fight, it doesn't say that any of them had been given roles, who had more knowledge or who didn't know how to be more effective etc... for Chris's sake, you're just making it up as you go along! (I haven't told you the part about Chris yet) So, based on your outrage and response, I went and actually googled Satan to find out the story behind Satan. You know what I was thinking? I thought to myself, how true and inline with my sentiment of how Satan was. The sin that he has was "pride". (Plus greed, if you like.) How did I guess that ? Ahh... a mystery. http://www.markbeast.com/satan/history-of-satan.htm You may say that: - Lucifer was jealous of Jesus' relationship with God. - Lucifer was quite spoiled by God because he was created so wonderfully such that it gave him a bit of a big head. Therefore it gave him the negative sin of Pride. - Lucifer did not have to pander to his own feeling of jealously by acting out and rallying some of the angels to side with him and therefore create a division in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 So, based on your outrage and response, I went and actually googled Satan to find out the story behind Satan. You know what I was thinking? I thought to myself, how true and inline with my sentiment of how Satan was. The sin that he has was "pride". (Plus greed, if you like.) How did I guess that ? Ahh... a mystery. http://www.markbeast.com/satan/history-of-satan.htm You may say that: - Lucifer was jealous of Jesus' relationship with God. - Lucifer was quite spoiled by God because he was created so wonderfully such that it gave him a bit of a big head. Therefore it gave him the negative sin of Pride. - Lucifer did not have to pander to his own feeling of jealously by acting out and rallying some of the angels to side with him and therefore create a division in heaven. LOL at "outrage" Also, are you sure that Lucifer didn't just aspire to be as jealous as God was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salsafan Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 What? Do your eyes have built-in "assumavision" or something? Where have I said that you do not get it? I don't want or expect you to say ANYTHING, you've chosen to do that all by yourself. I only pointed out that the things you have assumed, don't take place in my story. Huh ? If I am not the one who do not get it, then why did you respond with SUUUUUCH outrage ? "for Chris's sake, you're just making it up as you go along!" What exactly am I making up? You asked me why and I explained why. Do you know SOME psychology 101 ??? I'm not telling you, you'll just say I said something I didn't, or that I'm being obtuse, or that I'm immoral. Oh alright then. Up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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