Waldo Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 That means, of course, that you are asking people whether they will give up eating and drinking, give up wearing clothes, give up living in houses, give up using heating and lighting, etc. No it doesn't. At least, that's not how I read it. He's not asking 'would you give up EVERYTHING ...'. He was asking (and you quoted him) 'would you give up ANYTHING at all ...'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I'm not sure you would have to give that much up, all it would take is to go back to old methods of production. The benefits from oil was because in the past it was cheap which made commodities cheaper to make and brought in mass production. Cars and trains could be run on steam or electric, computers parts don't need to be made from plastic, tv's used to have wooden surrounds, carpets used to be wool, electric wiring was cotton and rubber covered, heating and water pipes were metal and drainage pipes cast iron. Where are you going to get the steam from? Where are you going to get the electricity from? If you're going to stick to the rules, you can't use anything which relied on oil in its manufacture or production to make steam and electricity or to transport the fuel to do so. Where are you going to get the cars and trains from? - You mustn't use any oil in their manufacture. So you advocate computers in sleek burr walnut cases. Fair enough. What are you going to use to make the components inside the computers? There used to be a computer firm called Acorn. They didn't grow the parts, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Are you prepared to give up oil and what oil provides to avoid war and the cost of war? Without oil, modern society cannot function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 No it doesn't. At least, that's not how I read it. He's not asking 'would you give up EVERYTHING ...'. He was asking (and you quoted him) 'would you give up ANYTHING at all ...'. Indeed. He'd changed the verbiage (his first post said:) Are you prepared to give up oil and what oil provides to avoid war and the cost of war? I'll give up margarine. That's made from oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Without oil, modern society cannot function. Castor oil? Cod liver oil? Are you suggesting that without oil, we would all be 'full of it'? Well, I'll be bound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 No it doesn't. At least, that's not how I read it. He's not asking 'would you give up EVERYTHING ...'. What makes the artificial fertilizers used to grow food? What makes the pesticides that are used on crops? What powers the harvesters used to harvest those crops? What powers the factories used to make the foodstuffs that fill supermarket shelves? What powers the lorries that deliver it to your local supermarket? What is the plastic food packaging used to contain your food made from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I'm not sure you would have to give that much up, all it would take is to go back to old methods of production. Those methods of production (particularly in the area of agriculture) only supported a global population of 1.6 billion. What do you suggest we do with the remaining 5 billion, eat them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagel Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fake Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Those methods of production (particularly in the area of agriculture) only supported a global population of 1.6 billion. What do you suggest we do with the remaining 5 billion, eat them? Well it would solve the food shortages although you don't have to eat them, just render them down and use that oil. Joking aside, although "modern" society would not survive very well it is still viable without using oil from the ground. Have a read of Small is Beautiful by Schumacher as small self contained communities work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack Jack Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 It is bizarre somewhat that the same attention wasnt paid to crisis in the agricultural nation of Zimbabwe. I wonder if oil products will be cheap when we own them all and I also wonder whether the pursuit of oil, and more poignantly control of its sources is not the newest incarnation of imperialism? No though I wouldnt give up oil to avoid war in answer to the OP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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