dawny1970 Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 You can reserve one... a car that wont be for sale in the UK for another 2 years minimum!!, i said if i could get 1 now i would do!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 a car that wont be for sale in the UK for another 2 years minimum!!, i said if i could get 1 now i would do!!!! Really? At any cost? The roadsters are available now.... over 200 miles/charge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digglydog Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 you use a link from a 15 yr old study, like most things, times change and reports do the same as well!! Try looking at the Campaign for Better Transport's website. They have a response to the budget. They are the UK's leading authority on sustainable transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Try looking at the Campaign for Better Transport's website. They have a response to the budget. They are the UK's leading authority on sustainable transport. And have no axe to grind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Notes 1. Buses are facing cuts totalling at least £133m. As part of the Save our Buses campaign, Campaign for Better Transport has identified cuts to local authority supported bus services in England amounting to around £34m to date. In addition, the Bus Service Operators Grant (BSOG) will be cut by 20 per cent from 2012, which will result in £99.6m less funding. 2. Bus fares have risen by 24 per cent and rail fares 17 per cent since 1997, compared to a fall of seven per cent in the overall cost of motoring over the same period. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110214/text/110214w0006.htm Private motoring is cheaper, public transport more expensive. More hand outs to the pampered, subsidised motorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Really? At any cost? The roadsters are available now.... over 200 miles/charge...Small fully-electric 'normal' hatchbacks (read: not Noddy-like ) have been available for at least a decade, from Peugeot (106) and Renault (Clio) at least, maybe other manufacturers as well. At the cost of a medium fossil-fuelled hatchback/sedan (battery lease cost a bomb, and still does), and a range of 60 to 80 miles (at the height of summer). There is no commercially - realistic improvement on them to date, that I'm aware of (fully EV that is, I'm not talking about hybrids). Having personally tried the fully-electric moped (50cc scooter lookalike) in 2006-2007 in Dublin centre, I can vouch that even with a return trip of a mere 15 miles, fully-electric is still not a viable, safe option. For a stated autonomy of 60 miles at least, battery charge decreases permanently throughout the day in winter and I had to walk and push the 'ped for the last mile (so 14 miles effective from a full overnight charge) on more occasions than I care to remember. Acceleration was about par with a pushbike, and took ages to reach 30 mph (more like 22-25 constant). That's saying nothing of the safety aspect. On the road with a full EV, even at 30 mph, no-one heard you coming or realised you were there. Pedestrians/cyclists/other road users alike. Makes you realise how much the average person relies on both sight and hearing for danger perception/awareness. Also makes you realise how dangerous pedestrians with iPods and mobile phone headsets are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Small fully-electric 'normal' hatchbacks (read: not Noddy-like ) have been available for at least a decade, from Peugeot (106) and Renault (Clio) at least, maybe other manufacturers as well. At the cost of a medium fossil-fuelled hatchback/sedan (battery lease cost a bomb, and still does), and a range of 60 to 80 miles (at the height of summer). There is no commercially - realistic improvement on them to date, that I'm aware of (fully EV that is, I'm not talking about hybrids). Having personally tried the fully-electric moped (50cc scooter lookalike) in 2006-2007 in Dublin centre, I can vouch that even with a return trip of a mere 15 miles, fully-electric is still not a viable, safe option. For a stated autonomy of 60 miles at least, battery charge decreases permanently throughout the day in winter and I had to walk and push the 'ped for the last mile (so 14 miles effective from a full overnight charge) on more occasions than I care to remember. Acceleration was about par with a pushbike, and took ages to reach 30 mph (more like 22-25 constant). That's saying nothing of the safety aspect. On the road with a full EV, even at 30 mph, no-one heard you coming or realised you were there. Pedestrians/cyclists/other road users alike. Makes you realise how much the average person relies on both sight and hearing for danger perception/awareness. Also makes you realise how dangerous pedestrians with iPods and mobile phone headsets are. Without reference to the tesla website I think the roadster is a full ev and the new one..if the performance figures are to be beleived they're no slouches either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomataheeed Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The real costs of road transport 1.1 Official statistics show that between 1987 and 2000, although petrol and oil prices had increased by 45%, and tax and insurance payments by over 40%, the total costs of motoring in real terms had risen by only 5.6-7.2%. [1] The same figures also reveal that bus and coach fares increased by 18%, and rail fares by 21%, in real terms. Therefore, motoring costs have increased hardly at all despite the fuel duty escalator - while public transport users have faced increases 2-4 times those faced by motorists. 1.2 Taking a longer timescale, motorists have been even better off, and public transport users even worse. George Monbiot wrote in The Guardian recently: "While average disposable income over the past 25 years has massively increased, the cost of driving in real terms has remained unchanged. Bus fares, by contrast, have risen by 87 per cent and train fares by 53 per cent. Our train journeys are now the most expensive on earth, costing some three times more per mile than the Spanish or Italians pay. British drivers are charged more for their fuel than motorists elsewhere, but they don't pay road tolls. The truth is that Britain's vehicles are massively subsidised by those of us who don't own one." [2] [3] The hidden costs 1.3 Not only has the "real" cost of motoring not increased significantly in statistical terms; but these statistics don't even reflect what economists call the "external" costs of road use - chiefly the costs of road damage, accident and emergency services, health effects of air and noise pollution, and the economic impacts of climate change. 1.4 The annual costs attributable to road transport include: Roadbuilding £6bn [4] Noise £2.6bn [5] Congestion costs £19.1bn [6] Road damage £1.5bn [7] Accidents £2.9bn [8] Health impacts £11.1bn [9] [10] [11] TOTAL £43.2bn [12] [13] 1.5 These are conservative estimates; if the upper estimates are taken, the total is £50.2bn. The roads bring in £32bn revenue a year. [14] Therefore the roads are being subsidised to the tune of £11.2bn-£17.2bn a year. Note that some of the above figures were 1993 calculations, and will require upward revision for inflation. Moreover, these figures don't include any allowance either for land-use subsidies to motorists [15], or for transport's contribution to climate change. The latter could cost the UK billions in the coming decade. http://www.greenparty.org.uk/files/reports/2004/FAIR%20ON%20FUEL,%20fair%20on%20the%20future%20Jun%2004.htm I agree with you...and the only logical conclusion is to do more of my travel by car. I was going to get on the bus ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 And it will now be subsidised by all So in effect anyone who doesn't drive, will now be subsidising our fuel. Not everybody that doesn't drive owns an oil company It is being subsidised by an increased levy on North Sea oil, paid by companies that get their oil from the North Sea. What part of that didn't you understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Notes 1. Buses are facing cuts totalling at least £133m. As part of the Save our Buses campaign, Campaign for Better Transport has identified cuts to local authority supported bus services in England amounting to around £34m to date. In addition, the Bus Service Operators Grant (BSOG) will be cut by 20 per cent from 2012, which will result in £99.6m less funding. 2. Bus fares have risen by 24 per cent and rail fares 17 per cent since 1997, compared to a fall of seven per cent in the overall cost of motoring over the same period. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110214/text/110214w0006.htm Private motoring is cheaper, public transport more expensive. More hand outs to the pampered, subsidised motorist. why are you ommiting parts of the text? ONS data suggest that between 1997 and 2010 the real cost of motoring, including the purchase of a vehicle, declined by 7%, bus and coach fares increased by 24% and rail fares increased by 17% in real terms. However, I would dispute this as no figures are being given to back up the claim, while in the simplest terms, the cost of a litre of petrol over the same period has almost doubled. average price per litre in 1997: 57.9p average price per litre now: 132.9p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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