Lotusflower Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 And how much extra will it cost to chase up the morons who think they're making some sort of stand by not filling it in? Somewhere in Meersbrook is a guy called Dave Campbell. He had this letter published in today's edition of the Sheffield telegraph: "As someone with an academic background in social policy, I fully understand the need to collect data that enables planners to make informed decisions about how our taxes are spent. However, I have recently discovered that the 2011 Census is being carried out by a US firm, Lockheed Martin. This company makes Trident nuclear missiles, cluster bombs and F-16 fighter jets, and helps run Aldermaston, Britain's nuclear weapons facility. It does 80% of its work for the US defence department and is involved in surveillance and data processing for the CIA and FBI. It has controversially provided private contract interrogators to the Abu Gharaib prison in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay. Moreover, as a US company Lockheed Martin is bound by the Patriot Act to hand over any information demanded by the US security agencies. This presents me with ethical and practical dilemmas. I do not wish to add to the profits of a company that specialises in death and torture; and I do not want any of my personal details to end up in the hands of the FBI or CIA. A spokesman for the Office of National Statistics has been quoted as saying that there are safguards in place that will prevent this happening. However, Douwe Korff (a professor of international law) has described these safeguards as "flimsy." I have therefore resolved not to hand over my completed census form until I have been given a written, cast iron guarantee that none of my information will ever be made available to a foreign government." Is Mr Campbell a moron then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Is Mr Campbell a moron then? Since he doesn't seem to have been able to have used his academic knowledge to do some simple research to establish that: - The contract was awarded to Lockheed Martin UK - a subsiduary of Lockheed Martin which by virtue of not being based in the US means the Patriot Act does not apply to it (census.gov.uk) - Lockheed Martin UK are to "provide services for the census involves questionnaire printing, providing a customer contact centre and data capture and processing" (quote from Wikipedia, but available from various other sources). From the various sources easily viewable, it appears that the "data capture and processing" services are the software to do the automatic handwriting recognition of the forms, rather than Lockheed Martin employees reading each form and typing the results in to a database. - Lockheed Martin UK provided the same services for the 2001 Census, so if they were going to leak the data to the US, they already have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 If they know already, why would they ask? If they are going to treat it all confidentially, why insert so many clauses? if you think the govenment, NOS or otherwise could manage to actually keep data safe -mundane as it all might be is not the point- then dream on. in case you need reminding how lax they are with others information http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=uk+government+loses+data will I fill it in? no. my mrs no doubt will, would I rather she didn't? yes. The ONS has never lost any Census information, unlike the banks, the DSS, the MOD and the civil service offices ,WFTC and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Is Mr Campbell a moron then? Yep. See above reply from dosxuk. For your homework maybe you should do a little research to see how far reaching most large companies - US or otherwise - come into your everyday lives. What are you going to do if you find Lockheed Martin have made parts for your car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharrowman Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm arming Libyan rebels with my census Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotusflower Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Yep. See above reply from dosxuk. For your homework maybe you should do a little research to see how far reaching most large companies - US or otherwise - come into your everyday lives. What are you going to do if you find Lockheed Martin have made parts for your car? Since I have never owned a car...you can guess the rest. I'm happy with the level of my research too. Instead of patronising me tell me what connection Lockheed Martin UK have with Lockheed Martin US please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccsux Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 It's all part of living in a society - you know, following the rules Civil disobedience is how some daft rules (laws) get changed:thumbsup:. They might might want to look up what Great Grandad/Granny did for their job, where they lived, who they lived with etc.. I have no children, so pretty irrelevant. But I just don't see a problem with filling in a form. You don't see coercion by our democratic government as a problem? For a family of 5 it took 15 minutes to fill in and had a couple of weeks to do it, is it really that much effort to take part in a mandatory government scheme that shapes what happens in your area? Another one that doesn't get that a democratic government shouldn't force you to fill in a form (especially when all/most of the information requested is already in their hands). Did you find it inconvenient to fill in your details to join this forum? Though by choice rather than under threat of some sort of penalty. it needlessly reinforces the "master - slave" dynamic. Which is precisely the reason for the initial census (so the ruling elite knew who had what and how much). We were asked to fill in some simple questions We are not asked anything, we are forced under threat of financial penalty. Thank you for being you. If everybody said yes i'll fill it in - the fine would be as much use as a chocolate fireguard. If everyone refused to fill it in, the result would be the same ("the fine would be as much use as a chocolate fireguard") as there is no way the entire population could be taken to court. I have disclosed less personal information to a powerless data collection agency Was you threatened with a fine if you refused? Who gives the state this right? William I. what's all the fuss about? £170,000,000 to a warmongering company to dissect the information and the threat of a financial penalty if you fail to complete it? There's also the fact that the "profit" from the census is going to a company that is not UK based. tell me what connection Lockheed Martin UK have with Lockheed Martin US please. The special relationship between the United States and United Kingdom has led to a large number of alliances in both defence and commercial programmes. On July 1, 1999 Lockheed Martin UK Limited was created. Based in London, it combines all of Lockheed Martin’s United Kingdom defence, civil and commercial business interests under a single UK-registered company. From http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/about/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manofstrad Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Civil disobedience is how some daft rules (laws) get changed:thumbsup:. I have no children, so pretty irrelevant. You don't see coercion by our democratic government as a problem? Another one that doesn't get that a democratic government shouldn't force you to fill in a form (especially when all/most of the information requested is already in their hands). Though by choice rather than under threat of some sort of penalty. Which is precisely the reason for the initial census (so the ruling elite knew who had what and how much). We are not asked anything, we are forced under threat of financial penalty. If everyone refused to fill it in, the result would be the same ("the fine would be as much use as a chocolate fireguard") as there is no way the entire population could be taken to court. Was you threatened with a fine if you refused? William I. £170,000,000 to a warmongering company to dissect the information and the threat of a financial penalty if you fail to complete it? There's also the fact that the "profit" from the census is going to a company that is not UK based. From http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/about/index.html Have you filled yours in and sent it sccsux? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordonb Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 The ONS has never lost any Census information, unlike the banks, the DSS, the MOD and the civil service offices ,WFTC and more. Whilst you are correct, what many of the people on this forum don't understand is that the ONS is not a government department but a freestanding body who do not have acess to any information held on any government computer be it local (city council,) or national apart from addresses.(but not names of occupiers) With regard to personal information anyone could find out (if they were that sad) from existing records about our lives, ranging from your grocery store card to tell us what you eat, to your library ticket telling us what you read and possibly therefore your politics. With regard to religion maybe I could follow someone and see of they go to church and if so which one. Bearing in mind the obvious point that question 20 about religion is voluntary why people want to waste their time filling in "Jedi" amazes me. That's about as stupid as the last government telling us that only 50,000 Eastern Europeans would come to this country after the last EU expansion. ie a load of <REMOVED> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessKate Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I threw ours in the bin, the last one i did i was living with my mum and dad and we all put our religion as "Jedi" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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