Potholes and road tax

[spindrift]

It may be one reason but you are drawing some direct cause-effect conclusions from data that may at best indicate a correlation.

 

Nope, I'm basing it on my own empirical evidence. You cannot argue I'm wrong because it is my direct experience of cycling in Berlin, it is safer than London and drivers are more cautious and there are many more cyclists and infra structure to help them. That's a fact, not conjecture, so when cycling rates are higher and safety is increased it is not a leap of faith to attribute the change to different attitudes and better facilities. There is nothing genetically different about Germans that makes them better cyclists, it is because they have the facilities that they are much better than us on car dependence.

[evildrneil]

Nope, I'm basing it on my own empirical evidence. You cannot argue I'm wrong because it is my direct experience of cycling in Berlin, it is safer than London and drivers are more cautious and there are many more cyclists and infra structure to help them. That's a fact, not conjecture, so when cycling rates are higher and safety is increased it is not a leap of faith to attribute the change to different attitudes and better facilities. There is nothing genetically different about Germans that makes them better cyclists, it is because they have the facilities that they are much better than us on car dependence.

 

Personal experience is not empirical evidence. I could turn round and say to you that in my personal experience I have been involved in three bike accidents when on a cycle of which two were my own fault and one was the cars fault. Have only ever seen one bike accident - when a cyclist was travelling much too fast, came round a corner and knocked over a pedestrian. And finally have only been involved in one incident with a bike when I was in a car when a cyclist misjudged the gap between me and another car and hit my wing mirror breaking it. This gives four accidents where the cyclist was at fault vs. one where the car driver was at fault. So from this "empirical" evidence it appears that cyclists are 4 times as likely to be at fault in the case of an accident as other road users so the presumption of liability should be on them and they should all have to take out insurance before taking to the roads. Fortunately some of us know the difference between anecdote and evidence.

[spindrift]

Personal experience is not empirical evidence. I could turn round and say to you that in my personal experience I have been involved in three bike accidents when on a cycle of which two were my own fault and one was the cars fault. Have only ever seen one bike accident - when a cyclist was travelling much too fast, came round a corner and knocked over a pedestrian. And finally have only been involved in one incident with a bike when I was in a car when a cyclist misjudged the gap between me and another car and hit my wing mirror breaking it. This gives four accidents where the cyclist was at fault vs. one where the car driver was at fault. So from this "empirical" evidence it appears that cyclists are 4 times as likely to be at fault in the case of an accident as other road users so the presumption of liability should be on them and they should all have to take out insurance before taking to the roads. Fortunately some of us know the difference between anecdote and evidence.

 

Nope, because that's replacing empirical with subjective.

[spindrift]

Germany has a warmer drier climate than the UK - maybe that makes is more pleasant for walking cycling?

 

No idea if that's true, but weather doesn't appear to impact on cycling rates in the slightest. In London, a drier city than Amsterdam, 2% of journeys are by bike.

 

In Amsterdam, a wetter city than London, 37% of journeys are by bike!

 

What, exactly, is your argument neil? That we should drive more and cycle less?

[jimmys]

No idea if that's true, but weather doesn't appear to impact on cycling rates in the slightest. In London, a drier city than Amsterdam, 2% of journeys are by bike.

 

In Amsterdam, a wetter city than London, 37% of journeys are by bike!

 

What, exactly, is your argument neil? That we should drive more and cycle less?

 

Are you actually comparing Amsterdam to London?

 

Heh.

[evildrneil]

Nope, because that's replacing empirical with subjective.

 

The point is your "evidence" is also anecdote. It is direct experience i.e. your subjective experience.

[evildrneil]

No idea if that's true, but weather doesn't appear to impact on cycling rates in the slightest. In London, a drier city than Amsterdam, 2% of journeys are by bike.

 

In Amsterdam, a wetter city than London, 37% of journeys are by bike!

 

What, exactly, is your argument neil? That we should drive more and cycle less?

 

I made no argument - I pointed out there could be a huge number of factors in play to explain the difference between cycle usage in Germany and in the UK. Simply stating the fact that Germany has a higher bicycle use than the UK is pretty meaningless without an exploration of the possible reasons behind it. Equally you can't take a single potential cause like weather and rule it out because of one comparison without taking into account the many other possible influencing factors.

 

As to driving and cycling - I do both. I don't think it would be a bad thing for people to cycle more however I am well aware that car bashing and making sweeping and unfounded statements is unlikely to have this effect.

[spindrift]

The point is your "evidence" is also anecdote. It is direct experience i.e. your subjective experience.

 

Nope. It's official. 3.800 kilometers of tBerlin's streets are traffic-calmed, featuring planters on the road and allowing a maximum speed of 30km/h. It's a recognised quirk that increasing cycling rates increases road safety because drivers get used to cyclists and may well cycle themselves. My pwn personal experience confirms this.

 

The same cannot be said about your cycling accident anecdotes. They are conjecture and supposition backed up with no evidence. You want to campaign for compulsory insurance for cyclists? Knock yourself out, it'll never happen because there is no need.

[donuticus]

you are an angry cyclist who claims car drivers are subsidised while ignoring the fact cyclists are 100% subsidised

 

Except for the fact quite a lot of cyclists also own cars.

[spindrift]

Simply stating the fact that Germany has a higher bicycle use than the UK is pretty meaningless without an exploration of the possible reasons behind it.

.

 

Which I've posted.

 

Lower speeds, Presumed Liability, drivers used to cyclists, calmer roads, better facilities, excellent cycle lanes.