How can an atheist believe in ghosts?

[Mr Prime]

Not when their evidence includes supernatural mumbo jumbo, no. When did a murderer get life based on a policeman using mumbo jumbo as evidence?

 

Why would I accept the evidence of a policeman, nurse or doctor when as human beings they are just as fallible as the next human being. For every copper admitting to seeing a ghost there'll be 20 coppers who are bent as a nine bob note, so not a good example eh.

 

Coppers don't tend to draw unwanted attention to themselves by reporting paranormal stuff unless they are deadly serious. There is the Bunting Nook legend in Sheffield where the cop saw something but kept quiet about it for a while as he was embarrassed to mention it. He later found out other coppers believed they had seen something.

 

I would also say the pillars of public service listed above are slightly better quality people than say bankers, Vicky Pollard's or criminals.

[flamingjimmy]

Coppers don't tend to draw unwanted attention to themselves by reporting paranormal stuff unless they are deadly serious. There is the Bunting Nook legend in Sheffield where the cop saw something but kept quiet about it for a while as he was embarrassed to mention it. He later found out other coppers believed they had seen something.

 

I would also say the pillars of public service listed above are slightly better quality people than say bankers, Vicky Pollard's or criminals.

That's not really saying much though is it, it only puts them above about 5% of the population.

 

And in any case, being a policeman does not make someone incapable of tricking themselves into thinking they've seen something when they haven't.

[Alien]

Coppers don't tend to draw unwanted attention to themselves by reporting paranormal stuff unless they are deadly serious. There is the Bunting Nook legend in Sheffield where the cop saw something but kept quiet about it for a while as he was embarrassed to mention it. He later found out other coppers believed they had seen something.

 

I would also say the pillars of public service listed above are slightly better quality people than say bankers, Vicky Pollard's or criminals.

 

You're not now suggesting that ghosts have an agenda and pick out "pillars of public service" are you so to give their existence more credibility?

 

As I implied before...you get the coppers who've seen ghosts and I'll point you in the direction of our pillars of society who are not as squeaky clean as you make out. We can then compare figures.

[Mr Prime]

You're not now suggesting that ghosts have an agenda and pick out "pillars of public service" are you so to give their existence more credibility?

 

As I implied before...you get the coppers who've seen ghosts and I'll point you in the direction of our pillars of society who are not as squeaky clean as you make out. We can then compare figures.

 

By jove that's exactly what I was suggesting.

 

Of course there are bent cops and others but that's life. Either way it doesn't help them to walk into the canteen and say "I've just seen a ghost". It's likely to induce a lot of<REMOVED> taking.

[Karis]

By jove that's exactly what I was suggesting.

 

Of course there are bent cops and others but that's life. Either way it doesn't help them to walk into the canteen and say "I've just seen a ghost". It's likely to induce a lot of <REMOVED> taking.

 

Because their teammates know there's no such thing as ghosts.

 

I can't count the times I've spoken to someone who's 'seen' a ghost, only for them to finally admit the truth (that it was all just a delusion) later.

 

Lots of people have seen... something... but, as we know, the mind is brilliant at playing tricks on us, and therein lies the problem.

[Grahame]

true enough and anyone foolish enough to wander the desert for 40 years with his followers because a voice told him to is suspect, and may possibly be in need of psychiatric help

 

"Forty" is a Hebrew term that means less than a generation but the exact duration is unknown (comp. Gen. vii. 4, 12, 17; viii. 6; Ex. xxiv. 18, xxxiv. 28; Deut. ix. 9, 11, 18; x. 10; I Sam. xvii. 16; I Kings xix. 8; Jonah iii. 4)

 

So the wanderings in the wilderness will have been less than a generation.

 

"Hebrew" by the way is a term given to the Israelites by other people and it means "the people from across the water."

 

I do believe these things happened and to some extent history bears it out and in the case of the burning bush science also. One of the problems is that we sometimes put two and two together and get it wrong but they say hindsight is a wonderful thing and with the Bible we are able to look back at the big picture and with hindsight we can see the hand of God at work. Now I am not saying God spoke to Moses in an audible voice but I do think that when we are close to someone we know their thoughts without a word being spoken and also sometimes people are inspired to do certain things and sometimes they are good and sometimes they are bad depending on the source of our inspiration and I firmly believe God works through people in this way. I can say that because I have known devout people in the service of God who have acted in faith and people around them have been blessed. I suppose three well known people who I would love to have known would be Albert Schweitzer, David Livingstone and Mother Theresa and I believe they had the love of God in their hearts and the Bible tells us God is love, so for me God is alive and well and living in the hearts and lives of those who know him, and love can move mountains.

 

[Vague_Boy]

and to some extent history bears it out and in the case of the burning bush science also.

 

How about some links to back that up? Peer reviewed articles would be preferable.

 

A "Christian scientist" writing in The WatchTower is an example of a link that would not be acceptable.

[Grahame]

How about some links to back that up? Peer reviewed articles would be preferable.

 

A "Christian scientist" writing in The WatchTower is an example of a link that would not be acceptable.

 

I'm on two forums at once so it will have to be brief. When I said "I do believe these things happened and to some extent history bears it out" I was thinking about events in the Old Testament like the flood for example that is born out in the history of other nations. Some of the Old Testament battles are recorded in other cultures as well and when people say the Bible is fairy tales I say no, history (meaning the history of other nations) bears it out.

 

[depoix]

"Forty" is a Hebrew term that means less than a generation but the exact duration is unknown (comp. Gen. vii. 4, 12, 17; viii. 6; Ex. xxiv. 18, xxxiv. 28; Deut. ix. 9, 11, 18; x. 10; I Sam. xvii. 16; I Kings xix. 8; Jonah iii. 4)

 

So the wanderings in the wilderness will have been less than a generation.

 

"

why is it i wonder ,that every time a question of doubt is raised the bible gets interpreted to give another answer to back up its claims ?

 

take genesis for example "and god created adam then he made him a wife as he was lonely they had 2 sons cain killed able and was banished to the far off land of nod where he took a wife "

 

now how does that come about? did he marry an ape ? according to the bible there were only 4 people on earth,one was murderd so that left three,so by its own definition there could be no wife for cain to take,it spoils the whole concept of the bible if there's going to be twists and turns in it ,virgin births,old men climbing mountains and returning with slabs of stone dont ring true

 

in my younger days i climbed a few mountains and believe me,its not as easy as its made out to be,and carrying several slabs of granite down one your own is just about impossible some of the things that are in the good book are impossible to believe in this modern age,some are credible but a few are not

[Grahame]

why is it i wonder ,that every time a question of doubt is raised the bible gets interpreted to give another answer to back up its claims ?

 

take genesis for example "and god created Adam then he made him a wife as he was lonely they had two sons Cain killed able and was banished to the far off land of nod where he took a wife "

 

now how does that come about? did he marry an ape ? according to the bible there were only 4 people on earth,one was murderd so that left three,so by its own definition there could be no wife for cain to take,it spoils the whole concept of the bible if there's going to be twists and turns in it ,virgin births,old men climbing mountains and returning with slabs of stone dont ring true

 

in my younger days i climbed a few mountains and believe me,its not as easy as its made out to be,and carrying several slabs of granite down one your own is just about impossible some of the things that are in the good book are impossible to believe in this modern age,some are credible but a few are not

 

This has been done before. Adam and Eve the parents of Cain and Able were living about 8,000 years ago in the Bronze Age and if you think about it humankind has been around much longer that that, so there were lots of other people around. It is just unfortunate that the first man ever was also called Adam and this is where the confusion has arisen.

 

If you read the following extract from Genesis 4 you will see that Cain went to the land of Nod where they were building cities, he was worried he might be killed by "every one that findeth me" so obviously there were other people around, they had the harp and the organ and they were working in Brass and Iron, so this is an advanced society.

"13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

 

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

 

15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever (other people) slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

 

16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

 

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

 

18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.

 

19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

 

20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle (farmers).

 

21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

 

22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

 

23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.

 

24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

 

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.