Benefits crackdown

[HeadingNorth]

I don't believe the majority are scroungers no.

 

Then why did you post that you do? You explicitly said that you no longer believe the majority to be genuine; you've changed your mind on that.

[purdyamos]

Nothing will ever be done about this until those working start to come under real hardship.

 

Only when the working majority start to actively vilify the workshy (and I mean physically) will anything change.

 

 

I would like to know how people on this thread can tell the difference, just by looking, between people who are *workshy criminal scum* and people who have major mental, neurological or learning disabilities which severely impair the capacity of someone to do a full time job.

 

Even if an employer is not an ignorant bigot like so many 'normal' people on this forum, and gives a mentally disabled person a job, that person will still need support, and extra time off due to episodes of their illness. Most employers will steer clear of that, and most ill people will risk being thrown back into the more severe and life threatening form of their condition.

 

The government proposals have soft and fluffy promises of extra support for those who need it, but as anyone who has experience of the acute end of mental illness knows, there is no adequate health service or support to begin with, never mind extra help for work.

 

Now you say people should physically attack those they deem 'workshy' even though most people would be totally incapable of identifying who is 'mad' and who is 'bad'. Most people of the type so common in this part of the world think the two groups are the same. The troglodyte faction of Sheffield Forum and all its sociopathic cohorts are actively stirring for a lynch mob mentality, that the multiple thousands of mentally ill and learning disabled who have been abandoned by the system, are fair targets for full blown scapegoating.

 

And don't give me the phoney crap about 'genuine cases' because people who get fascistic about benefit cheats can't tell the difference and don't want to. They simply want a dustbin for the most vile and base of human instincts.

 

There are many reasons to get angry about the state of the country, but targeting the most vulnerable sections for punishment simply advertises your own moral depravity.

[Ms Macbeth]

Its all about a balance. I'd like to think that those who genuinely can't work get the help they need to live reasonably. I've worked with some severely physically disabled people, who have seen absolutely no reason not to work. However, there are hidden disabilities, and some people who may look fine to the general observer may have a mental or physical condition that makes a commitment to regular work difficult. These are the people who are often vilified, because they appear 'normal' (whatever that is!). And these are the ones who should get a sensible level of benefit.

 

Many people who have a strong work ethic still feel stigmatised and embarrassed when they can't find work, or if they are unable to work because of disability/illness.

 

But I realise there are a minority of people in our society who don't have a work ethic, and who take no personal responsibility for either themselves or their (I just fell pregnant ) progeny. I tend to think that young parents who can't support themselves financially should be the responsibility of their families, until such times as they are financially independent. More hostels are needed for the young who have never worked. I don't really see how a young, non working person can think they can afford to move into independent accommodation. I dont believe someone who has never tried to work, and has no reason not to have worked should expect to have an income and a home all paid for by the rest of us. But I believe strongly in the Welfare State. We'd be a much poorer society morally without it.

[Mister M]

The problem these days is that being on the dole is seen as a lifestyle choice rather than something to be ashamed of.

 

It says everything about the benefits culture that Labour promoted that now we are seeing a long-awaited crackdown on scroungers and skivers that the left wing media are reporting it as an attack on people's rights. No-one has the right to free money for life just because they don't want to work.

 

According to the following link, David Cameron was fuelling the scrounger hating debate claiming that £5.2billion is fraudulently claimed in benefits.

 

http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2010/08/benefit-fraud-and-tax-evasion-white-collar-vs-tracksuit.html

 

That you seem unaware of the fact that £16billion worth of benefits goes unclaimed each year by those who are entitled to them (according to the C.A.B - see link above), says everything about the ferocious but partial reporting of the largely right wing media who report cases of benefit fraud regularly - but are loathe to report the amount of benefits that go unclaimed by the needy; or do not report how much tax is dodged.

[Jonny5]

I would like to know how people on this thread can tell the difference, just by looking, between people who are *workshy criminal scum* and people who have major mental, neurological or learning disabilities which severely impair the capacity of someone to do a full time job.

 

Even if an employer is not an ignorant bigot like so many 'normal' people on this forum, and gives a mentally disabled person a job, that person will still need support, and extra time off due to episodes of their illness. Most employers will steer clear of that, and most ill people will risk being thrown back into the more severe and life threatening form of their condition.

 

The government proposals have soft and fluffy promises of extra support for those who need it, but as anyone who has experience of the acute end of mental illness knows, there is no adequate health service or support to begin with, never mind extra help for work.

 

Now you say people should physically attack those they deem 'workshy' even though most people would be totally incapable of identifying who is 'mad' and who is 'bad'. Most people of the type so common in this part of the world think the two groups are the same. The troglodyte faction of Sheffield Forum and all its sociopathic cohorts are actively stirring for a lynch mob mentality, that the multiple thousands of mentally ill and learning disabled who have been abandoned by the system, are fair targets for full blown scapegoating.

 

And don't give me the phoney crap about 'genuine cases' because people who get fascistic about benefit cheats can't tell the difference and don't want to. They simply want a dustbin for the most vile and base of human instincts.

 

There are many reasons to get angry about the state of the country, but targeting the most vulnerable sections for punishment simply advertises your own moral depravity.

Glad you got that off your chest?

 

Of course the benefit system should be there for those that need it.

 

It is the people who are abusing it that need targetting.

 

And I wasn't advocating violence. I am telling you that is what will happen if if continues on its present course.

 

You of all people should be angry with the benefit cheats because the money that they are taking is money that otherwise could be directed towards yourself and others who need it most.

[studentbob]

Glad you got that off your chest?

 

Of course the benefit system should be there for those that need it.

 

It is the people who are abusing it that need targetting.

 

And I wasn't advocating violence. I am telling you that is what will happen if if continues on its present course.

 

You of all people should be angry with the benefit cheats because the money that they are taking is money that otherwise could be directed towards yourself and others who need it most.

 

First you used the term workshy, then you used the terms benefits scroungers and under class. Now you claim it's only the ones that are breaking the law by claiming fraudulently.

 

So which group is it that you are so against?

 

Or do you not bother making those type of distinctions?

[Jonny5]

First you used the term workshy, then you used the terms benefits scroungers and under class. Now you claim it's only the ones that are breaking the law by claiming fraudulently.

If you are fit and able to work and neither working nor actively looking for work then you are a workshy benefit scrounger from the under class and are a fraudulent claiment.

 

Does that really need explaining?

[studentbob]

If you are fit and able to work and neither working nor actively looking for work then you are a workshy benefit scrounger from the under class and are a fraudulent claiment.

 

Does that really need explaining?

 

Thanks. Glad that's sorted.

[fake]

According to the following link, David Cameron was fuelling the scrounger hating debate claiming that £5.2billion is fraudulently claimed in benefits.

 

He is twisting the figures to suit. The official DWP document states that the total estimated amount of genuine fraud for 2009/10 stood at £1 billion, which is around 0.7% of the total benefits budget. That also include council tax and housing benefit.

 

Fraud = £1.0b

Customer error = £1.1b

Official error = £1.1b

 

As you can see official error caused by the DWP itself is higher.

[Mr Prime]

Then why did you post that you do? You explicitly said that you no longer believe the majority to be genuine; you've changed your mind on that.

 

I believe the majority of disabled claimants are genuine. As for the rest I am doubtful. I certainly believe that the majority of benefit claimants do not do so in the spirit of the 1945 governments plan.

 

e.g. How many have kids and rely on the state? They should have none at all unless they can be paid for but think "well we'll muddle through with child benefit and tax credits". These are supposed to supplement one's own pay not be the backbone. As for those claiming to be unemployed, the sheer number of Europeans doing jobs proves the jobs were always there. Kevins would rather sit on the playstation while waiting for some well paid low brain job to pop up. Nobody's told them we are not an industrial nation anymore.

 

In short I believe the majority of benefit claimants use it as a lifestyle option as opposed to a temorary stopgap which is what it's supposed to be. Simple solution is vouchers. "But they're undigfnied". Well there's nothing undignified about being temporarily out of work is there?