Flowersfade Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Bet you used to be uncertain now you're not sure. I bet bassman believes in the white theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimani Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Dig below the surface and which famous historical figure is without his failings? Churchill was no different, he was a human after all with the same failings we all possess. To suggest that makes his achievements during world war two nul and void is I think what most people would object to. i did not mean to suggest that his achievements were null and void, just that, like every other figure in history, they are exaggerated and overblown at the expense of reality and balance. but, we do need that, i guess, as symbols and legends inspire much more than what's real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimani Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 That seems to be the general opinion of the man but never underestimate the old saying that the pen is mightier than the sword. I could not see Clement Attlee, able as he was in many other ways or Lord Halifax being able to convince the deeply divided British class structure at that time that it was worthwhile to continue the fight against Hitler when all seemed lost in the summer of 1940. Hitler was also anxious to cease hostilities against Britain and had extended peace offers through diplomatic channels in neutral Switzerland. Up to that time there were very few, if any British casualties caused by any German bombing and the opinion of the British public yet to harden against Germany as it did by the end of 1940 after the Blitzing of it's major cities. Churchill was also able to establish enough of a relationship with US president Roosevelt for Roosevelt to risk his own political career by violating US neutrality laws and providing Lend Lease which has often inacurately been criticized for being ineffective. fair and concise appraisal this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Web Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 The more Jewish we have in UK society the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimani Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 It's a pity you haven't studied the war other than the battles. There were senior members of the war cabinet who wanted to sign a deal with Hitler on the silly assumption that having taken over all of europe and Russia (which he would have had he not had the British, the british Commonwealth and Empire to face) he would have left the UK alone. i have studied the War B. i'm no expert but but i do know enough to form to say what the man achieved, though commendable was more out of circumstance and opportunity than sheer 'ability or talent'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 i have studied the War B. i'm no expert but but i do know enough to form to say what the man achieved, though commendable was more out of circumstance and opportunity than sheer 'ability or talent'. As I said earlier you obviously aren't aware that there were those in the cabinet who wanted top strike a deal with Hitler what you may also not know is that Churchill wasn't the leader who took us into the war against Germany, Chamberlin who was a very experienced politician and prime minister at the time soon proved to be out of his depth in a war situation hence First Sea Lord Churchill took over and the rest is history despite what miisinformed 'Flowersfade' says in her attempts to decry the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 i have studied the War B. i'm no expert but but i do know enough to form to say what the man achieved, though commendable was more out of circumstance and opportunity than sheer 'ability or talent'. What a colossal none point. No-one has ever achieved anything in the absence of "circumstance and opportunity" it can be no more held against Churchill that he happened to meet with a circumstances he was so well suited to excel in than all the other great people who have ever lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimani Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 As I said earlier you obviously aren't aware that there were those in the cabinet who wanted top strike a deal with Hitler what you may also not know is that Churchill wasn't the leader who took us into the war against Germany, Chamberlin who was a very experienced politician and prime minister at the time soon proved to be out of his depth in a war situation hence First Sea Lord Churchill took over and the rest is history despite what miisinformed 'Flowersfade' says in her attempts to decry the man. this is common knowledge, B. did it in junior high history in something we called 'world history' way back in the old country in my teenage years. our disagreeing, especially on such a subjective topic, doesn't imply i know nothing or less than you, or the way round...simply that with the same or similar information we have come to different conclusion. the man did well, but he wasn't the legend he's been blown up to become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimani Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 What a colossal none point. No-one has ever achieved anything in the absence of "circumstance and opportunity" it can be no more held against Churchill that he happened to meet with a circumstances he was so well suited to excel in than all the other great people who have ever lived. ....ok.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 What a colossal none point. No-one has ever achieved anything in the absence of "circumstance and opportunity" it can be no more held against Churchill that he happened to meet with a circumstances he was so well suited to excel in than all the other great people who have ever lived. Exactly there were senior people in the war cabinet who'd have signed a deal with Hitler and all they'd have achieved would be maybe a years peace till Hitler had sorted out the Soviets. Churchill was the man for the moment, nothing or nobody can take that from him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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