Do You Barter In Shops??

[Rupert_Baehr]

Dollo's law does not apply to language.

 

It may not always apply to humans, either.

[Waldo]

No, words are given meaning, by what people intend them to mean. If for example, people started to use an existing word with a different meaning to it's current meaning; in time, it's meaning changes.

 

Language is an organic, changing, evolving, function of human beings; it's not fixed.

 

I didn't explain myself very well there...

 

If I said "do I TRUMP in shops"; most people would NOT understand that to mean "do I BARGAIN in shops" (i.e. attempt to negotiate down, the price a shop is asking for a particular item.

 

However, if I said "do I BARTER in shops"; my guess is that most people would take that to mean negotiating on price etc.

 

I'm just saying that actual general usage of a word, defines it's meaning; more so that what's written down in a dictionary (which is after the fact - as evidenced by the fact that the dictionary meaning of words, can change over time).

 

It's not like; before there was any language, someone wrote down all the words we can use, put them all in a dictionary, printed and distributed loads of copies, and said to everyone "off you go!". Point being, that language evolves over time, and what's in the dictionary is a snap-shot of the words currently in use.

[Rupert_Baehr]

The general usage of the word 'barter' is not 'bargain.' They are two completely different words with different meanings.

 

The OP used the word 'barter' instead of 'bargain' (or even haggle - which is what I do )

 

I - being one of the forum pedants - pointed out that I do not use barter - I use money.

 

"I'll give you a horse 4 cows and 2 sheep for that car ... but I want at least one pig discount on the first service" might work, but it's easier to carry a wallet than to drive a herd around town.

 

Perhaps nobody made a fuss about the misuse of the word because English appears to be the second language of many people on the forum?

[natjack]

However, if I said "do I BARTER in shops"; my guess is that most people would take that to mean negotiating on price etc.

 

I'm just saying that actual general usage of a word, defines its meaning;.

I don't think they would, because 'barter' isn't generally used to mean 'haggle', is it? Problems start when someone knows the proper meaning of a term and they're trying to deal with someone who doesn't know what the word means.

 

I guess the word you and the op were after was bargain'??

 

My take would be that if I was buying something really expensive, I'd try to get a discount by asking nicely .. but otherwise I wouldn't demean myself.

[Waldo]

I don't think they would, because 'barter' isn't generally used to mean 'haggle', is it? Problems start when someone knows the proper meaning of a term and they're trying to deal with someone who doesn't know what the word means.

 

Well, it's all good (in that I've learned something new, thank you gentlemen).

 

Incidentally, I would have (apparently incorrectly, according to the dictionary definition) understood 'barter' to mean 'haggle'. I also feel that most people have this (mis)understanding too.

 

I may well be wrong. A quick visit to dictionay.com for me!!

[callippo]

Language is an organic, changing, evolving, function of human beings; it's not fixed.

 

total garbage. Bartering is not bargaining, or haggling. It means something completely different. Bartering often happens in periods of high inflation, when people might trade services, i.e. like somebody might exchange one service, like mowing somebody's lawn, for another one, like cutting somebody's hair.

 

if you give them money, the money might be worth quite a bit less by the time you bank it, therefore it can make sense to trade goods and/or services for one another. This is bartering. It has nothing to do with the idea negotiating, bargaining, or haggling prices.

 

bargaining/haggling/negotiating is totally different and and as far as the UK is concerned, is what happens when some cretin comes back from a holiday in Turkey or Egypt and tries to get 10p off a packet of crisps in the newsagents.

[Waldo]

Total garbage that language is organic, changing, evolving?

 

Lets say; that 99% of people start using the word 'BARTER' to mean negotiate. In such a case, does the meaning of the word change? Or, are 99% of people incorrect?

 

Also, have any words, ever changed meaning in this way, throughout the entire history of the use of language by human beings?

[shortcrust]

total garbage. Bartering is not bargaining, or haggling. It means something completely different. Bartering often happens in periods of high inflation, when people might trade services, i.e. like somebody might exchange one service, like mowing somebody's lawn, for another one, like cutting somebody's hair.

 

I've never heard or read the word 'barter' in place of the word 'haggle' before, but I didn't notice that until coming back and reading these replies. I knew exactly what the thread title meant.

 

The evolution of language happening before our very eyes! What a treat!

[Noob]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_red_paperclip

 

This lad didnt do bad.

[Rupert_Baehr]

Getting back to the point of the OP (and we all knew what he meant ) I often ask whether a shop/restaurant/hotel/dealer offers a discount ... A surprising number do, too.

 

They might've forgotten they did so before I asked, but when I asked, it's surprising how many remember that they do indeed offer discounts.

 

Even supermarkets have been known to discover that they offer unadvertised discounts ... if the size of the purchase is right.