AV - how to vote?

[mattleonard]

I understand that and if I had my way we would have an English government, I'm just concerned that a vote for no change will lead to no more debate on electoral reform.

 

I'm more concerned that a vote for change will make people say "there - we've fixed it". Or worse, "we tried to fix it, and it didn't help so lets avoid going through the whole mess again".

[HeadingNorth]

I'm more concerned that a vote for change will make people say "there - we've fixed it". Or worse, "we tried to fix it, and it didn't help so lets avoid going through the whole mess again".

 

The fact is, people could use either a yes or a no vote to argue in favour of never holding another voting referendum; so worrying about that outcome shouldn't favour voting one way or the other.

[Akrasia]

AV will make no difference in Rotherham because for some strange reason Labour always gets a majority, so they won’t need to look at second options.

 

No, FPTP seems to get the result right in Rotherham.

 

But it might make a difference in places like Dewsbury (Con 35%, Lab 32.2%, LD 16.9%), Colne Valley (Con 37%, LD 28.2%, Lab 26.4%), and Pudsey (Con 38.5%, Lab 35.1%, LD 20.8%).

 

It's hard to say, though, because thanks to FPTP encouraging tactical voting we don't even know who people's first preferences are, let alone their second preferences.

[the_mandarin]

Under AV, the person coming next to last in the first round could eventually win.

 

This could happen, but only when the sum of the votes of the one who came last and the one who came next to last add up to more than the votes of the candidate who came first.

 

I am personally in favour of AV, as it gives you an option to do away with tactical voting wherein you would have to vote for someone who dislike, to keep out someone who severely despise. AV gives you the chance to vote for someone you would like and failing him, your second/third choice.

[Grandad.Malky]

. Hopefully voting AV is heading towards a fair voting system.

 

How is a system fair when it adds the votes from the party that game last to those of the party that came first?

 

The system is so bad that when it was introduced in Australia they had to make voting compulsory …………….

[eddie_w]

The system is so bad that when it was introduced in Australia they had to make voting compulsory …………….

 

Not really true. This is one of the 'facts' Baroness Warsi rolls out. Turnout in the election after they introduced AV was 71%, which was 7% less than the previous election under FPTP, but still high considering they had a turnout of 50% in 1906. Turnout dropped to 58% in 1922 which is when they introduced compulsory voting, but it's unfair to suggest this was due to the AV system.

[Grandad.Malky]

Not really true.

 

If you say so, how about debunking these quotes then.

 

 

The system in the only established democracy to use AV offers a guide to the UK

 

Evidence from Australian state elections, where ranking candidates is not compulsory, suggests many people will continue to vote for only one party, leaving other votes blank. If that happens in Britain, AV may make very little difference.

 

 

It works but it isn't perfect. Like everywhere, the other grass is always greener: a recent poll found only 37% backed AV, with most people hoping for electoral reform – to first past the post.

[andikay]

How is a system fair when it adds the votes from the party that game last to those of the party that came first?

 

The system is so bad that when it was introduced in Australia they had to make voting compulsory …………….

 

It isn't fair it’s a crap compromise but FPTP is a crap system as well.

 

Let’s say 45% of the people want Conservative 35% want Labour and 20% Lib Dem but 100% have Lib Dem as second choice. It’s better to have 100% of the people with their second choice instead of 55% haveing a council they can't stand.

[andikay]

I'm more concerned that a vote for change will make people say "there - we've fixed it". Or worse, "we tried to fix it, and it didn't help so lets avoid going through the whole mess again".

That’s a possibility I had considered changing AV to PR on the paper, my vote won’t count but if millions of people did it, it might make them think about it more. Voting for no change will likely make them say “we offered people change but they didn’t want it”

[eddie_w]

If you say so, how about debunking these quotes then.

 

You're on.

 

The system in the only established democracy to use AV offers a guide to the UK

 

Yep, fair enough. It's a fairly small sample size though so it can only be used as a guide rather than an exact mirror of what might happen.

 

Evidence from Australian state elections, where ranking candidates is not compulsory, suggests many people will continue to vote for only one party, leaving other votes blank. If that happens in Britain, AV may make very little difference.

 

Again, fair enough, I can imagine that happening. I can imagine situations where I personally would only rank one party under AV. Does it really matter though? AV isn't really a massive departure from FPTP, it's just slightly more representative. I won't be voting 'Yes' with the belief that it's going to radically shake things up - it won't, research has shown this. What it will do is make the opinions of a greater number of people count for something, and give a fairer, more representative result in marginal seats. Basically how I see it, we've got a choice of a crap system (FPTP) or a slightly less crap system (AV). Ignoring the NO2AV lies about the extra costs involved (yes the referendum has cost money, but after it there's no more to be spent), why not opt for the slightly less crap system?

 

It works but it isn't perfect. Like everywhere, the other grass is always greener: a recent poll found only 37% backed AV, with most people hoping for electoral reform – to first past the post.

 

As far as I can find out there has only been one poll published in Australia on this issue recently - so again, it's a small sample size and difficult to draw any definate conclusions. If we were Australians debating the opposite argument and I provided a British poll from last May that showed 56% of people in favour of moving to AV, would you draw the conclusion that FPTP is absolutely not worth bothering with?