dosxuk Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I was replying to post #10...how can someone who comes second in an FPTP win? This post? Under AV, the person coming next to last in the first round could eventually win.Same can happen with 1st past the post too. Especially if there are only 2 candidates. The one which responds to post #2? Which talks about someone coming second last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 What if you really want candidate A, and could just about live with candidate B, but definitely don't want candidate C? You are pushed towards giving a more significant weight to candidate B than you really feel. Yep,I think you'd feel bound to vote for B and not put C anywhere just to make sure C didn't get any of your support..just like strategic voting under FPTP.. I think.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 i didnt know that, I thought you had to register for 6 votes? Nope, you can put as many preferences down as you wish (up to the number of candidates obviously). If you want to only give one candidate your vote FPTP style, you are free to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 If you want it boiled down very simply, think of it like this: The current FPTP system looks at each person's first preference,and ignores everything else. The person with the most "first preferences" is the most popular candidate and is elected. The AV system looks at all preferences, and calculates accordingly. Hence, someone who is 'first preference' for only 10% of the electorate but is 'second preference' for almost everybody, is more popular overall than someone who's 'first preference' for 40% but the other 60% can't stand at all. Now which of those descriptions you think is a better description of "most popular" is, essentially, which voting system you would prefer. I should point out, from a purely mathematical point of view and without regard to any parties, that FPTP has only one flaw. It's a big one, but it is only one. In order to win under FPTP, you don't need to secure a majority of the vote; you only need more of it than any other one person has managed. If ten candidates are all just about equally popular, you'd end up with an elected MP who only secured perhaps 12% of the vote! AV, on the other hand, has numerous flaws inherent in the system. You do end up with an MP who is at least "acceptable" to half the voters or more, which is an improvement. Whether you get the "most acceptable" candidate is highly questionable for all sorts of strange reasons, which I don't have time to go into here. I'll point out one of them, though; it is possible under the AV system for a candidate to lose the election because too many people voted for him as first choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 What if you really want candidate A, and could just about live with candidate B, but definitely don't want candidate C? You are pushed towards giving a more significant weight to candidate B than you really feel. Whereas under FPTP, you're likely to have to vote for B just to stop C getting in, regardless of which party you really want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 This post? The one which responds to post #2? Which talks about someone coming second last? Go on, I said I may have missed something apologies if I have but....how can someone who doesn't come first in FPTP win? I thought the clue was in the name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Go on, I said I may have missed something apologies if I have but....how can someone who doesn't come first in FPTP win? I thought the clue was in the name You can't, but post two was mentioning that someone "second from last" could win. Under an FPTP election with only two candidates, the winner is second from last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 You can't, but post two was mentioning that someone "second from last" could win. Under an FPTP election with only two candidates, the winner is second from last. But I was replying to post #10...originally anyway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 But I was replying to post #10...originally anyway.. That's precisely what post #10 says - that, just as under AV, the person coming second-to-last can win. (But only if there are exactly two candidates.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 But I was replying to post #10...originally anyway.. Same can happen with 1st past the post too. Especially if there are only 2 candidates. But post #10 on it's own means nothing. It only makes sense in context, which is where the coming second last come in. Under AV, the person coming next to last in the first round could eventually win.Same can happen with 1st past the post too. Especially if there are only 2 candidates. At no point does post #10 say the winner came second... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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