shortcrust Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Why are we needing immigrants to fill some of these type of posts if our university system is so good ? Surely you're making the case for a massive expansion of higher education?! We need them because we have a shortage of some of these professionals, not because the British ones aren't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andikay Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Imagine what they would be like if they hadn't been to uni! Imagine what they would be like if they had worked and then studied at home to gain their qualification, they would be financially much better off but they would have to sacrifice their social life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Surely you're making the case for a massive expansion of higher education?! We need them because we have a shortage of some of these professionals, not because the British ones aren't good enough. I am making a case for students to study for degrees which would be appropriate to employment opportunities and skills the country needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcrust Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I am making a case for students to study for degrees which would be appropriate to employment opportunities and skills the country needs. I get your point, but you'll find that the limiting factor on the numbers of student doctors, dentists, speech therapists etc is the number of available places rather than the number of interested students. Such courses have many more applicants than places. I also am very wary of arguments in favour of planning higher education provision solely on the basis of meeting employers' needs. I want to live in a country that continues to produce philosophers and historians. Even if they end up working in McDonald's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I get your point, but you'll find that the limiting factor on the numbers of student doctors, dentists, speech therapists etc is the number of available places rather than the number of interested students. Such courses have many more applicants than places. I also am very wary of arguments in favour of planning higher education provision solely on the basis of meeting employers' needs. I want to live in a country that continues to produce philosophers and historians. Even if they end up working in McDonald's. Universities should be able to calculate how many doctors etc. are needed at present and in the future and allocate recourses to teach these courses. It is ridiculous that presently we have to import professional people and yet are educating our graduates in subjects which do not lead to employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcrust Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Universities should be able to calculate how many doctors etc. are needed at present and in the future and allocate recourses to teach these courses. It is ridiculous that presently we have to import professional people and yet are educating our graduates in subjects which do not lead to employment. But the resources aren't there to allocate. It's not just about money and bricks and mortar. You can't simply convert a sports science department to a medical school and get drama lecturers to start teaching student dentists. It's almost impossible to expand the the numbers of some student health professionals because there just aren't enough practicing clinicians to supervise the extra placements that would be needed. You can cut as many 'soft' degrees as you like, but it won't increase the numbers of graduates in the areas we're short of. In fact, doing so would have the opposite effect because excess funding from cheaper degrees helps to subsidise more expensive courses such as medicine. Start closing departments that you think we don't need and you just end up with poorer universities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 But the resources aren't there to allocate. It's not just about money and bricks and mortar. You can't simply convert a sports science department to a medical school and get drama lecturers to start teaching student dentists. It's almost impossible to expand the the numbers of some student health professionals because there just aren't enough practicing clinicians to supervise the extra placements that would be needed. You can cut as many 'soft' degrees as you like, but it won't increase the numbers of graduates in the areas we're short of. In fact, doing so would have the opposite effect because excess funding from cheaper degrees helps to subsidise more expensive courses such as medicine. Start closing departments that you think we don't need and you just end up with poorer universities. I am sure that if there was a will there would be a way. I would also allow students to study without paying course fees for degrees which would directly lead to employment in areas where we have a skills shortage in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 If you don't like the valid answer you really shouldn't ask the question Malky. You asked me what I thought. Since I'm not the Lib-Dems my answer isn't for the good of anyone, it's just the plain truth. You seem to be under the naive delusion that re-phrasing the official government line on a given topic is the 'valid answer' and it seems to be on the strength of this assumption that accuse people who don't believe the spin about student fees of being unable to do sums. It seems ironic that you should adopt this patronising tone, as it doesn't take a genius to work out that you can't masiively increase the amount of fess students have to pay, without the students actually having to pay more money. Conversely, if they are actually required to pay less money, their fees have not increased, but been reduced. I appreciate this may be a difficult concept to grasp for those who are susceptible to government spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 There is no 'official government line' on this one, there is just simple mathematics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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