Getting rather sick of Clegg-bashing now

[Akrasia]

So the LibDems aren't responsible for anything they have done? Except for the inconvenient fact that the Tories needed their support to introduce these merasures, and they gave that support, doing a 180 degree turn on what they had promised and thus making it possible for these things to happen, which could not have happened otherwise. They seem to imagine it will blow over, if only they put the right spin on it. It won't.

 

Just out of interest, do you appreciate the full impact of this betrayal? For example, do you know how much more a graduate who goes on to earn a fairly modest £25k throughout their working life will pay as a result of the changes?

 

As the Lib Dems compromised, offering support in exchange for influence over the policy, I think the details are important to appreciate the full horror of what they did.

[donkey]

Yes, voting to raise tuition fees involved breaking a pre-election pledge.

 

Can you think of any other 'acts of betrayal', or was that the only one?

 

I think it would be quicker if you told me which pledges they made and stuck to?

[donkey]

Just out of interest, do you appreciate the full impact of this betrayal? For example, do you know how much more a graduate who goes on to earn a fairly modest £25k throughout their working life will pay as a result of the changes?

 

.

 

If that's what they believe, that is what they should have put in their manifesto. The point is they lied. Just because you personally happen to agree with their excuse for lying (millions don't) is hardly a justification.

[Akrasia]

I think it would be quicker if you told me which pledges they made and stuck to?

 

I don't have the manifesto to hand right now, but here are a few things that spring to mind:

 

Increasing the Personal Allowance to take more low earners out of income tax

Increasing capital gains tax to reduce tax avoidance

Blocking the Tory inheritance tax cut for the rich

More generous basic state pensions

A pupil premium to focus school resources on kids from poor backgrounds

A firewall to keep banks risky operations separate so that we don't have another bailout

An opportunity to improve the voting system by moving to AV

[Akrasia]

If that's what they believe, that is what they should have put in their manifesto. The point is they lied. Just because you personally happen to agree with their excuse for lying (millions don't) is hardly a justification.

 

For information, the answer is that a typical graduate who goes on to earn £25k will pay something like £12k less under the new system than they would have done under the old system. If you object to the policy, then you're standing up for rich graduates at the expense of everyone else.

 

I agree that they shouldn't have made the pledge before the election. They tried to change the party position well before that, but couldn't get agreement to do so. When they negotiated the coalition agreement, they prioritised the policies that the party was united on, and which they'd put front and centre in their manifesto, and compromised on policies where the party was split, getting concessions where they could. I think that's a reasonable approach, and that given the small number of MPs they have, they've managed to do a remarkable amount of good.

[harvey19]

Instead of complaining about the changes to tuition fees for students surely the argument should be for the same system to be applied in England as is operated in Scotland and Wales where their students pay no fees if they study in their own country.

[daftlad]

I could never get sick of Clegg bashing.

 

me neither, he is well out of his depth, so is Vince Cable. More Clegg bashing please, the turncoat deserves it

[Grandad.Malky]

Instead of complaining about the changes to tuition fees for students surely the argument should be for the same system to be applied in England as is operated in Scotland and Wales where their students pay no fees if they study in their own country.

 

Not forgetting free prescriptions and free dental checkups for all.

[harvey19]

Not forgetting free prescriptions and free dental checkups for all.

Good point.

Why aren't opposition politicians, union leaders and students bringing these differences to the foreground instead of concentrating on complaining about the changes to student fees ?

Maybe Clegg bashing deflects from the real issues.

[donkey]

I don't have the manifesto to hand right now, but here are a few things that spring to mind:

 

Increasing the Personal Allowance to take more low earners out of income tax

 

The tories were going to do that as well

 

IIncreasing capital gains tax to reduce tax avoidance

 

Complete nonsense. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12828434

 

A pupil premium to focus school resources on kids from poor backgrounds

 

You mean they have replaced the existing scheme with a new one which has a budget of only 25% of the original? Thart is effectively a 75% cut which you are peresenting as an increase.

 

 

For information, the answer is that a typical graduate who goes on to earn £25k will pay something like £12k less under the new system than they would have done under the old system. If you object to the policy, then you're standing up for rich graduates at the expense of everyone else.

.

 

So you say, but on the strength of what you have presented as 'facts' thus far, then forgive me if I don't accept it at face value. Weren't we also assured that only a small minority of students would pay £9,000 P.A. Yet now it seems that the reverse is true. Gosh! Being told something that is exactly the opposite of the truth! Now why does that seem familiar?

 

Even if i did accept your figures (which I absolutely do not) you have further spun it by implying that 'a typical graduate' goes on to earn £25k. That is less than a nurse earns.

 

If coalition politicians genuinely believe what they are doing is fair, why don'rt they lead by example, and pay back for the Uni educations they got for nothing at current market values?