epiphany Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Firstly, I do not wish to offend anyone who has suffered the loss of someone close to them in conflict. My criticism is not against the individuals who fight, with all goodness of intention, but the curious lengths at which we go to convince ourselves and others that our so-called leaders, the co-orchestrators of these conflicts, are always correct when they proclaim "they died for your freedom". How many people here actually know for a fact that our men and women are being sent to die for our freedom? Is this just another talismanic expression used to justify sending ever more men and women to slaughter half way across the world, perhaps for a cause in which our stakes are minimal? What is most curious is that, many of us admit that power is typically self serving and even manipulative, in order to fulfil self serving agendas, yet at the same time we cling to the possibility that perhaps, this time, power sincerely cares about the people's cause, that they are indeed engaging in conflict for the good of humanity, not just a coterie of elite beneficiaries. I'm aware that there is an element of comfort in the thought that they are dying for our freedom, but then that is why double-think is so pernicious. Whatever satiates the inner conflict of the mind simply has to be the truth, for our own sanity, no matter how little we might believe the rhetoric deep down. I wonder what other things in life there are to which we apply this kind of double-think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 If every dead man was previously told you WILL die a bloody and ugly painful death tomorrow rather than the outcome of war has fatalities, I wonder what percentages would rethink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 'they died for your freedom' is a cliched, overused lie. Its true in about 0.01% of times that it is said imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 'they died for your freedom' is a cliched, overused lie. Its true in about 0.01% of times that it is said imo. I often wonder when people use the expression whether deep down they sincerely believe it, or they just want to believe it. In a sense the only reason (if you can even call it a legitimate reason) to recite it is to console those who have lost loved ones in conflict. I could never confront a bereaved mother with the question of whether her son really did die for a noble cause and why she would assume that. Is this a case of the truth being compromised, in a way, by social decency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Is this a case of the truth being compromised, in a way, by social decency? Yes, I think so. It's a comforting lie, but a dangerous one that distorts people's views into becoming black and white. It fits very nicely into the zeitgeist about there being some sort of global conflict between freedom and Islamism. Goes very well with that other moronic line 'they hate us for our freedom' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyouus Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 The very fact that we are able to write what we like about the powers that be, within reason shows all the deaths of those defending our way of life was worth it. Soldiers fight for each other when it really gets down to it. Yes country Queen regiment, but at the point of contact it's each other. The blokes you have trained with gone through good and bad with. Plus, and I can only speak for the infantry, you fear your own leaders more than the given enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 The very fact that we are able to write what we like about the powers that be, within reason shows all the deaths of those defending our way of life was worth it.That is not logical. How do you think it shows that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 The very fact that we are able to write what we like about the powers that be, within reason shows all the deaths of those defending our way of life was worth it. But surely you first have to prove they were indeed fighting to defend our way of life to even begin to make that link between their death and our freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I often wonder when people use the expression whether deep down they sincerely believe it, or they just want to believe it. In a sense the only reason (if you can even call it a legitimate reason) to recite it is to console those who have lost loved ones in conflict. I could never confront a bereaved mother with the question of whether her son really did die for a noble cause and why she would assume that. Is this a case of the truth being compromised, in a way, by social decency? Loss has to have a noble cause. A need to believe and that belief has to be righteous. Families do not need, or even want reality which is excellent for the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 They most certainly died in WW2 to stop Hitler permanently taking over the whole of Europe. Anyone who thinks differently is in cloud cuckoo land. Having once been in a war myself i"ll just say that soldiers fight for each other and not much else, not for country or the cause of freedom. It's your fellow soldiers you care about and very little else matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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