Kaimani Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 The problem I have with the definition of torture is WHO it is applied to, would you, Meyouus, have a problem with a fifteen year old girl being forced to stand naked in stress positions or waterboarded? Would it make a difference if the age was increased by ten, or thirty or fifty years? What if it was her father? Or Grandfather? Or Brother? I agree torture is pointless, far more information was extracted by the Germans in WWII by kindness then was ever extracted by torture, and the information was, on the whole, much more reliable. I don't believe torture has a place in modern society, especially when much more sophisticated techniques already exist. If you think you need torture, why not use drugs? Are they more or less acceptable than pulling finger nails out? you're right. any situation that might 'require' torture has gone so far wrong, and the people involved so entrenched that nothing useful can be gained. incentives work better than threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimani Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 You base your assumptions firstly on the fact you KNOW the person knows where your child is and secondly that they would be susceptible to torture. Read your WWII histories, the Gestapo were light years ahead of you in torture techniques and they failed. What kind of arrogance makes you think you would be better? it's more the fact you would feel the need to do something, anything. i think i'd do similar. though, i admit, my firt game would be to offer everything i have for the return of my seed unharmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuchi_Zien Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 it's more the fact you would feel the need to do something, anything. i think i'd do similar. though, i admit, my firt game would be to offer everything i have for the return of my seed unharmed. The problem is if you are wasting your time with somebody who doesn't know or is fanatical enough to refuse to say how is that helping? It may make you feel better, until you discover you were wrong or just wasting your time! Having said that I would probably be stood next to you with the hot needles, I just hope somebody would be there to make me channel my energies into a more productive route! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andikay Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 i hear you on that. problem is, after a certain point the torture becomes counter productive. the only way to cause more pain then would be to cause death, or start killing off their own children... I’m certain I could make them suffer long enough to get the information I wanted and even if they didn’t give me the information they would at least be suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andikay Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 You base your assumptions firstly on the fact you KNOW the person knows where your child is and secondly that they would be susceptible to torture. Read your WWII histories, the Gestapo were light years ahead of you in torture techniques and they failed. What kind of arrogance makes you think you would be better? In the scenario they kidnapped my child so it’s a reasonable assumption they would know where my child is and if they didn't know they would die suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riche Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Its called marriage. Ive been married for 20 years now, it prob more torture for the Mrs. 3 seven year itches, I'll scratch he next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuchi_Zien Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 In the scenario they kidnapped my child so it’s a reasonable assumption they would know where my child is and if they didn't know they would die suffering. Why? If you have captured one of a group how do you know the group will continue with the plan? If they assume you are going to be successful at getting the information then they would have to be particularly dim to continue with the plan your captive is already aware of. Who's to say he won't send you off on a wild goose chase? What are you going to do torture him till he tells you what you want to know and then torture him till he tells you what you want to know? It is pointless and counter productive, People who are tortured, in general, will either spit in your face or tell you the first thing they think of. A TV series was shown a while ago where several people were told a piece of information and then had 'mild' torture applied until the 'interrogators' were happy with the information they received. What they weren't told was that only ONE of the victims had ACTUALLY been provided with information. Result they lost the useful information in a pile of rubbish put out by the rest of the victims who said whatever they thought the captors wanted to hear to stop the torture. How is that useful or beneficial? AND you have just given the moral high ground to your enemy and provided the best propaganda they could ever hope for!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimani Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 The problem is if you are wasting your time with somebody who doesn't know or is fanatical enough to refuse to say how is that helping? It may make you feel better, until you discover you were wrong or just wasting your time! Having said that I would probably be stood next to you with the hot needles, I just hope somebody would be there to make me channel my energies into a more productive route! same. thing is, hypothetically, if you're sure they have the child you can't sit and treat and reason with them indefinitely. but, like you say, if they don't want to give up the information they won't. it's more an exercise in preempting your own conscience that you'll need to live with when it's all said and done. you have to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I have no problem with the use of torture as a means to save life. If a terrorist wasn't telling you what you wanted to know, would you follow your ethics that step further and torture an innocent party to save your child? A wife, a child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimani Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I’m certain I could make them suffer long enough to get the information I wanted and even if they didn’t give me the information they would at least be suffering. seen. seen. like i said, it becomes more about you than the child or the kidnapper. but, truth is, if they wouldn't have given you the child in the first place they won't regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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