Alien Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Would be interesting to see how many women voted in favour of being careful from the present 16 votes and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John X Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 but she is also sending a signal that she is very confident, perhaps even threatening to a potential abuser. That is a very important point. As rape is more about power and control than it is about sex, a potential attacker is much more likely to 'choose' a timid-looking woman wearing a duffelcoat, than a very confident looking woman dressed more 'sexily'. A woman I knew a few a few years ago definitely dressed in her own words 'like a tart' but when you were out with her the message her appearence gave out was very definitely "I choose who I want to have sex with, not you!" I'd say that confidence plays a much bigger part than dress in whether a person is the victim of sexual assault or not. John X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I feel the debate is a little foggy now. I'll clarify a little. When I say "from a different perspective" I not only mean from someone who has a different opinion but also from the perspective of say a drunk male no brainer. Does HE think the woman who is dressed provocatively is up for it? Well you clearly do, and many men would, sure. But as I said before, it's complex. Some men think all women are up for it, some men think that none of them are. There's a thread started by a young schoolgirl moaning about 'unwarranted attention' despite wearing just t-shirt and jeans. Every normal distribution curve has extremes at the edges, and some men are sexual predators. So are some women. Most men recognise that girls that dress up in revealing outfits do so simply because they want to. Some might be on the pull, some not. Some men might wolf-whistle, some women might wolf-whistle back, or say **** off. Some women might revel in the attention, others might not. At the end of the day most men and women, fortunately, know the difference between right and wrong. What a woman is wearing is irrelevant. Oh, and btw, the offensive word you used there is "provocatively". Again it reverts to gender stereotyping, that the men can't help themselves. I know of no man that is like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Well you clearly do, and many men would, sure. But as I said before, it's complex. Some men think all women are up for it, some men think that none of them are. There's a thread started by a young schoolgirl moaning about 'unwarranted attention' despite wearing just t-shirt and jeans. Every normal distribution curve has extremes at the edges, and some men are sexual predators. So are some women. Most men recognise that girls that dress up in revealing outfits do so simply because they want to. Some might be on the pull, some not. Some men might wolf-whistle, some women might wolf-whistle back, or say **** off. Some women might revel in the attention, others might not. At the end of the day most men and women, fortunately, know the difference between right and wrong. What a woman is wearing is irrelevant. Oh, and btw, the offensive word you used there is "provocatively". Again it reverts to gender stereotyping, that the men can't help themselves. I know of no man that is like that. Mmmm, do I though? Its been a long old thread and I'm not sure I've ever said that I personally think that? I thought what I was trying to get across was what "some" men may think, others perceptions. The word "provocative" is just a word and by highlighting this it shows its more to do with the right wording rather than the issue to you. I've never complained when I've been called a "hunk" or an "alpha male" Or there are words like "toy boy" which are also gender specific and if I read the Guardian, wear sandals and ate lentils no doubt I would be offended by these terms. But I'm not, because they're just words and its water off a ducks back. If the word provocative is really that offensive and causes offence we are in a sad old state.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Which is evidence of what exactly? You have made the claim that dressing like a 'slut' will increase a woman's chances of being sexually assaulted. Is this just an opinion, or have you actually some evidence for the claim? There seems to be plenty of evidence to the contrary. http://www.dpc.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/81678/What_you_can_do_if_you_experience_sexual_assault.pdf Your arguments seem a bit confusing. You are careful to distance your comments from any idea of blame, but as Chris Sleeps points out merely using the word 'should', as the officer did, implies blame. You have accepted that the way a women dresses does not increase the chances of her being raped, but rape is sexual assault. What sort of sexual assault are you talking about? If it's merely chants of "get yer ***s out for t'lads" from the braindead, then I am tempted to agree, because I have witnessed this behaviour for myself. But then these girls could possibly not care. However, if you are talking about sexual violence, then I am skeptical of the claim. These girls dress this way because they want to, and that's all that matters. For some it's a bit of fun, for some it's liberating, even empowering. I suspect it is the latter that some men have a problem with. It would be difficult to get any evidence. Anyone brave enough to suggest this and put it in print or the internet would soon find his / her evidence discredited, rubbished and not believed. Furthermore, anyone who did present such a case would soon find their jobs on the line and their career in tatters following the witch hunt that would follow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cressida Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 ... for some it's liberating, even empowering. I suspect it is the latter that some men have a problem with. The men that have a problem with it can walk away, turn their back - they don't need to take it any further do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 [sarcasm] Come on girls, I know it's hot out there but seriously, some of the clothes you have been wearing the last couple of days has been very provocative. Tone it down will you. To the girl with the large bosom walking up Brocco Bank this morning ... I watched every male driver turn his head as they drove past you. This is dangerous. Wear a short skirt and tight T-shirt if you've got a small chest no problem, but please think twice if you are a large chested lady. [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukdobby Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I can see where the cops are coming from,this is the society we live in,we should all be able to walk through any area without being robbed but we can't,our lasses should be able to dress in what they want without being a sexual target but they can't.We all have to be careful in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nri786tahira Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 That last thing you said, it doesn't even matter if they're successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I can see where the cops are coming from,this is the society we live in,we should all be able to walk through any area without being robbed but we can't,our lasses should be able to dress in what they want without being a sexual target but they can't.We all have to be careful in this day and age. ... and it's nice to own nice things but they are more likely to be stolen, and it's nice to live anywhere you like but in some areas your house is more likely to be burgled, etc etc. It is not a cop's job to blame victims, but to enforce the law. Because we "should" be able to wear what we want, own what we want, and be where we want, that that is the society that we want, then the system of law has to defend that principle and should never blame the victim, or provide an excuse for the criminal. As soon as officials start advising people to stay out of an area, then it's the start of the end imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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