Cyclone Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Telling someone after the fact that they could have done more to avoid something is blaming them. So telling them in advance how they can reduce their risk is just setting them up to be blamed if they choose not to follow that advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica23 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Telling someone after the fact that they could have done more to avoid something is blaming them. So telling them in advance how they can reduce their risk is just setting them up to be blamed if they choose not to follow that advice. Couldn't have put it better myself. It's a non-debate, really. Either you believe that everyone has the right to wear what they want or you don't. I don't have a lot of time for the people who don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica23 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 [...] There is NO EVIDENCE to suggest that if you dress provocatively you are more likely to be raped. None. It might seem like common sense, but really its not. Rape and serious sexual assault are nothing to do with sex or how 'sexually available someone is' - if anything they're the opposite. Its to do with power and control. This is also an essential point that gets overlooked far too frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Spyda Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Couldn't have put it better myself. It's a non-debate, really. Either you believe that everyone has the right to wear what they want or you don't. I don't have a lot of time for the people who don't. Everyone? So presumably you would be perfectly fine with 10 year old girls walking around in suspenders and peephole bras? Not every item of clothing is for everyone and there is a common sense time and a place for certain types of clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrneil Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 So telling them in advance how they can reduce their risk is just setting them up to be blamed if they choose not to follow that advice. Absolute rubbish! By that argument no-one should ever be given advice or information about how to reduce their risks - climbing the Eiffel Tower? Well no-one advise them to wear a safety harness! Having a baby? Well no-one advise them to take folic acid, stop smoking or watch your alcohol intake! After all we aren't giving them advice so they can help themselves mitigate any possible problems or dangers but so we can blame them if things do go wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 I think anyone is telling fibs if their 18 year old daughter was going out in a strange area for the first time dressed as a "slut" and they say "its her choice, if she's attacked its the attackers fault." It is, but what a few people are trying to state, is that if you dress like a "slut" some men will treat you like a "slut." They are wrong to do so, but isn't it wise to take precautions? There seems to be a shortage of common sense in the pro "slut" supporters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Which is what we are talking about - dressing provocatively. Dressing provocatively? What you are talking about is a woman dressing in a manner that provokes a man to sexually assault her. Provocation is a legal defense which describes a response to another's conduct sufficient to justify an acquittal or mitigated sentence. No matter how you play with words, when you say "dressing provocatively" you are talking about apportioning blame. Again I will ask, can you provide an example of what you class as dressing provocatively? On a scale of burqa to nakedness, where do yo draw the line, and why is your line more credible than that of the Taliban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Dressing provocatively? What you are talking about is a woman dressing in a manner that provokes a man to sexually assault her. Provocation is a legal defense which describes a response to another's conduct sufficient to justify an acquittal or mitigated sentence. No matter how you play with words, when you say "dressing provocatively" you are talking about apportioning blame. Again I will ask, can you provide an example of what you class as dressing provocatively? On a scale of burqa to nakedness, where do yo draw the line, and why is your line more credible than that of the Taliban? At last we're making some progress. You finally admit it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 She admits that evildrneil is talking about it... Not that it's the way reality works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 At last we're making some progress. You finally admit it.. Finally admit what? That you think men can be provoked into violence by the clothing that a women wears is undeniable. That it actually happens is unproven. My main objection to the idea of telling women what they should wear is that it is sexist, intolerant, counter productive, and by the evidence of Egypt and other less than liberal societies, would probably make things a lot worse. Anyway, care to answer the questions I posed in #197. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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