"Slutwalks" in N. America

[evildrneil]

Then men should clearly not wear kilts. At least by your own thinking.

 

 

No. By my thinking, men should be aware that if they wear kilts there there is an increased chance that they will be sexually assaulted and that they should bear this in mind when wearing it and be aware of it.

 

I've never suggested that women shouldn't wear sexually overt / slutty clothing.

[Cyclone]

Dr Neil has already given an example.

 

Anecdotes are only weak evidence at best.

[evildrneil]

Anecdotes are only weak evidence at best.

 

That was testimony not anecdote...

[Cyclone]

What it's not is a reliable body of evidence. But even if we accept that clothing can affect the behaviour of others, your testimony doesn't show that it increases the risk of serious sexual assault. And even if you did manage to prove that, it still doesn't follow that police officers should be advising women to dress differently, particularly using pejorative terms like slut, in order to minimise that risk. Advise them that the risk exists, give them options on how to minimise it, tell them to stop dressing like sluts, no.

[evildrneil]

What it's not is a reliable body of evidence.

 

Why not? In the absence of CCTV, first hand testimony is about as good as it gets in terms of evidence.

 

But even if we accept that clothing can affect the behaviour of others, your testimony doesn't show that it increases the risk of serious sexual assault.

 

Mots people would accept that how you dress affect how people perceive and react to you. And are you trying to say that sexual assault can be not serious? Is it now perfectly reasonable for me to go cop a feel of every lady wearing a short skirt because it's not "serious"?

 

And even if you did manage to prove that, it still doesn't follow that police officers should be advising women to dress differently, particularly using pejorative terms like slut, in order to minimise that risk. Advise them that the risk exists, give them options on how to minimise it, tell them to stop dressing like sluts, no.

 

1. Do you have any evidence that he told them to "stop dressing like a slut"?

 

2. Why not use a pejorative term like slut - sometimes pejorative terms are very good at getting a point across.

 

3. If it is accepted that how you dress affects how people react to you then surely dress is one of the elements that should be addressed in a safety talk. Not to do so would seem at least remiss.

[Cyclone]

First hand testimony of people that were subjected to serious sexual assault would be about as good as it got, I'd guess that there probably is some evidence available from the statements made in prosecutions that take place, but it may never have been collated into a single body.

 

Are you trying to say that all sexual assaults are the same, don't you agree that some are more serious than others?

 

It was well reported at the time, and I the impression his statement made was that it was the girls faults. And like I already said, giving people options and information is not the same as telling them what to do.

[evildrneil]

First hand testimony of people that were subjected to serious sexual assault would be about as good as it got, I'd guess that there probably is some evidence available from the statements made in prosecutions that take place, but it may never have been collated into a single body.

 

Are you trying to say that all sexual assaults are the same, don't you agree that some are more serious than others?

 

Yes I think there are a range in the seriousness of sexual assault but I think they are all serious. Ignoring my experience and going on to talk about serious sexual assault clearly implies that you don't consider an un-invited "copping a feel" to be serious.

 

It was well reported at the time, and I the impression his statement made was that it was the girls faults. And like I already said, giving people options and information is not the same as telling them what to do.

 

Yes it was well reported - and I didn't get the impression he was telling them what to do or assigning blame at all.

[Cyclone]

The act of giving advice on how to avoid something automatically causes blame to be apportioned if the advice is ignored, we've established that already. It's the "I told you so" response.

 

In the context of a club, not serious enough to warrant prosecution, no. That's just an opinion though.

[evildrneil]

The act of giving advice on how to avoid something automatically causes blame to be apportioned if the advice is ignored, we've established that already. It's the "I told you so" response.

 

You've established that you would blame them nothing more.

 

In the context of a club, not serious enough to warrant prosecution, no. That's just an opinion though.

 

If you chose to press charges I see no reason why you couldn't. People probably wouldn't for the same reason I didn't - when you go out to a club wearing what might be considered "slutty" clothing then you are aiming to attract attention so you don't complain when you do!

[Cyclone]

I thought we were all being honest, like how we accept that clothes affect behaviour... Are you saying that someone that ignores advice doesn't get blamed for it if the thing the advice is supposed to avoid happens?