Mecky Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 A particularly harsh example, most of us are lucky enough to not have to deal with that. But we all deal with things beyond our control everyday, how you deal with them is a mark of what kind of person you are and we can influence how things turn out. But we're certainly not in absolute control of our lives. It depends on which influence you want to have. Let's say you were up before the beak for tax evasion and you knew you were guilty. How would you influence the magistrate to make him let you off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 No, it proves you don't have control over it when you're alive, as that's how you end up dead! You're right! I concede the point re: control, though that was never the point I was trying to make. If you had control, you'd decide not to be stabbed, but that's not an option at that point due to you not actually controlling your life. I'm pretty sure I've never said you had absolute control. Or even control beyond the choices you are able to make. You can be beset by the worst possible of circumstances, but (IMV), it's how you deal with those circumstances that determine your quality of life. I still believe life is what you make of it, not what other will allow you to make of it for the vast majority of people. (the opposite of the post I originally replied to). Which is irrelevant, the fact that you cannot choose for things not to happen to you proves that you do not control your life. I've never said you are except in reply to your previous post (labouring the point, badly, re: Life is what you make it). I concede that you are not always in absolute control. Nobody has said you can't make choices. That wasn't even the original question. The point I dispute is that life is *not* mostly what others will allow you to make of it for most people. Being able to choose from a limited set of choices does not mean that you are in complete control of your life, and QED you are not entirely responsible for your own circumstances. I've never said as much, I've merely said that life is what you make of it, not what others will allow you to make of it, and that you always have choices. Claiming that you are entirely responsible for any success or failure is not realistic. Actually, I was referring to your expectations in terms of reward for what you do, and the effort you're prepared to put in. I've never said everyone is always the only one responsible for their sucesses, though I believe in most cases of success they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I think the extreme examples have established that life is NOT what you make of it, up to and including it being ended when you don't want it to be. I use extreme examples to make the point clear, but it applies on all levels. Life is a result of how you deal with all the things that happen to you. Which is not the same as it being "what you make of it" as if you have endless choice in all things. Working hard is no guarantee of success, although it improves the chance of it compared to not having worked hard. The point I started disagreeing with your opinion was here Only if you allow them, which says more about you than them. As my examples have illustrated, there are many many things about which you have no choice. There is no 'allowing' with most events that happen to us, they just happen. How you deal with them is important, but that wasn't the statement you'd made here in your first post on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 As my examples have illustrated, there are many many things about which you have no choice. There is no 'allowing' with most events that happen to us, they just happen. How you deal with them is important, but that wasn't the statement you'd made here in your first post on this thread. OK, well have to agree to disagree. I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make, perhaps I made it badly. Others seem to have got the jist so it can't have been that bad. Do you believe that "In most circumstances life is what OTHER PEOPLE let you make it"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuchi_Zien Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 OK, well have to agree to disagree. I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make, perhaps I made it badly. Others seem to have got the jist so it can't have been that bad. Do you believe that "In most circumstances life is what OTHER PEOPLE let you make it"? I'm curious was it your choice to make the point badly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I believe that in all circumstances life is a combination of the decisions you make and what happens to you that you don't control. Do you believe that "We are responsible for our circumstances"? Which was the topic title. For example, are the circumstances that Medusa has to live with her responsibility? Is Prince William responsible for the circumstances of his life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I believe that in all circumstances life is a combination of the decisions you make and what happens to you that you don't control. Do you believe that "We are responsible for our circumstances"? Which was the topic title. It is the topic title, but I have never attempted to address the question in any of my posts. Since when has any post on SF stayed totally on topic? For example, are the circumstances that Medusa has to live with her responsibility? Is Prince William responsible for the circumstances of his life? I dont' believe circumstances are applicable to to my view re: "life is what you make it". I don't believe there is an active conspiracy that means "life can only be what others allow you to make of it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I'm curious was it your choice to make the point badly? I'm only guessing I made it badly, since some people appear to have understood my point from get go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Nobody said anything about a conspiracy. Random events affecting you are not conspiracies, but pretending that you aren't affected by natural disaster, disease, macro economic affects and the behaviour of everyone around you is just silly. Edit - yours was the 3rd post on the thread, you'll have to forgive me for assuming that you had at least looked at the OP and title and that your reply might somehow be related to them! Mr Zien makes a good point. If your life is in your control, and you aren't affected by others and circumstance, how can it be possible that a point you make isn't understood? Surely by not understanding it, we've been affecting your choices and causing you to keep replying to us? Nearly everything we do is some kind of interaction with others, and interacting can't happen if you are unaffected by your environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Nobody said anything about a conspiracy. The words "In most circumstances life is what OTHER PEOPLE let you make it" would seem to suggest otherwise. In the context of Mecky's other posts, across many threads, I believe he does think there is a conspiracy. Who are these "other people" who have a vested interest in keeping you down? I know who Mecky thinks they are, Tories. I don't believe that's in anyway accurate, though I've no doubt that is what he was trying to imply when he posted, it's a common theme regardless of the thread topic. Random events affecting you are not conspiracies Indeed, that is part of the point I was making! There is no conspiracy, it doesn't exist. but pretending that you aren't affected by natural disaster, disease, macro economic affects and the behaviour of everyone around you is just silly. I guess it's just aswell that I have never stated as much then Edit - yours was the 3rd post on the thread, you'll have to forgive me for assuming that you had at least looked at the OP and title and that your reply might somehow be related to them! Why would you assume that? The post to which I was replying was quoted in the reply. Mr Zien makes a good point. If your life is in your control, and you aren't affected by others and circumstance, how can it be possible that a point you make isn't understood? All I said was that life isn't what other people allow me to make of it. I believe that's true. Even if I were coralled into a corner and in dire circumstances, I still wouldn't blame others for my state of affairs, and I don't believe *most* other people would either. They accept that life isn't fair and get on enjoying their life. Surely by not understanding it, we've been affecting your choices and causing you to keep replying to us? That I choose to reply doesn't indicate anything other than I chose to reply. Nearly everything we do is some kind of interaction with others, and interacting can't happen if you are unaffected by your environment. Quite, I'm not sure what point you're trying to argue, you seem to be upset about something I've never explicitely stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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