Degrees of rape - The poll

[Bassman62]

Not wanting to belittle the debate but lets just consider speeding, there are those that would say speeding is speeding bla bla bla ………. But everyone can see that doing 32 in a 30 zone is in no way the same as doing 50 in a 30 zone.

 

If the serious matter of rape is going to be tackled surely we need to move away from the idea that rape is rape and judge each case on its merits.

 

Tin hat firmly in place.

I fully agree there, there are varying degrees of motoring offences, varying degrees of assault.

Basic rape where a person submits to save herself from possible murder or bodily harm is one thing but repeated rape with brutality, causing injury is in my view far more serious.

[ronthenekred]

Rape (real rape) is always an heinous offence and (IMO) anybody convicted of Rape should receive a salutory sentence.

 

But there are indeed differences between rapes and some rapes are indeed worse than others.

 

You disagree?

 

I'm yet to be convinced, unless you associate rape and the circumstances surrounding rape as one in the same.

 

All you've seem to have done is reduce or increase the severity of rape by the associated good/bad stories by implication. There is no excuse for rape, you can excuse or try convince yourself or others by connecting it with another scenario like, 'she was up for it' or 'I beat her to a pulp because she bit me' 'I knew she was only 10 but she said she loved me', are just excuses, they're all just excuses.

[ronthenekred]

50 posts so far on this thread, have you read any of them ?

 

My guess she has, and she's on the money.

 

 

Unless it's 'basic rape'. In which case she needs a slap and re-educating.

[Rupert_Baehr]

Rape (real rape) is always an heinous offence and (IMO) anybody convicted of Rape should receive a salutory sentence.

 

But there are indeed differences between rapes and some rapes are indeed worse than others.

 

You disagree?

 

A drunken man who comes home from the pub and rapes his wife has committed an heinous offence. The offence of rape. On conviction, he should be (IMO) castrated and locked up.

 

A man who rapes a 3 year old child has committed an heinous offence. It has happened. 99.99% of the time I don't approve of the death penalty ... there are exceptions.

 

If an 18 year old (adult) man has a 15 year old long-standing girlfriend and he has sexual intercourse with that child, the man is guilty of rape. She (a minor) could not have consented, so it is rape.

 

Is that as heinous an offence as the man who raped the 3- year old child?

 

Then there was the case of the man who took an under-age child to Gretna. Rape. - The fact that you have been seeing this child and claim to be in love with her is 'in love' is irrelevant. She was 15, you were 18. An adult. Guilty. Go to jail.

 

And there was the case of the 29 - year old woman who abducted a 14- year old male and took him to Florida. Apparently she F*****d his brains out.

 

She was 'recovered' to the UK (The court in Florida was going to send her down for a long time.)

 

"Oh, you poor dear woman, You poor 29 year old victim. That nasty 15 year old male must've lead you astray! Take a 'telling off'. These wicked male children must learn that they can't get away with luring midle-aged birds."

 

UK law. Females can't rape males (Even if the female is 50 and the male is 10.)

 

Males can rape females.

 

Perhaps the law needs to be changed? If a predatory male can be convicted of raping an under-age female, shouldn't that work both ways?

 

Rape as an heinous offence.

 

Should an 18-year old male who has sexual intercourse with his 15yr 11 month girlfriend be treated as harshly as a gang-rapist?

 

Rape is a very serious offence and (on conviction) should be punished harshly.

 

If the punishment for rape is (say) 15 years imprisonment and given that a jury would only convict a person who they are convinced is guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt' then should a jury who are convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the accused is innocent and that the charge is wholly fallacious be permitted to send the person who made the complaint to jail for the same time?

 

Exempt DNA evidence, rape is often 'He says - She says'.

 

If the 'going rate' is 10 years - and if we do believe in trial by jury - shouldn't that be an 'each way' sentence?

 

I'm yet to be convinced, unless you associate rape and the circumstances surrounding rape as one in the same.

 

All you've seem to have done is reduce or increase the severity of rape by the associated good/bad stories by implication. There is no excuse for rape, you can excuse or try convince yourself or others by connecting it with another scenario like, 'she was up for it' or 'I beat her to a pulp because she bit me' 'I knew she was only 10 but she said she loved me', are just excuses, they're all just excuses.

 

Lets quote the whole post ... you chose to quote it selectively.

 

Rape is rape and should be punished severely ... where it is rape (see below, later.)

 

I did not suggest that there was 'pardonable' or 'ignorable' rape, but I did suggest that an adult raping a 3-year old infant is an immensely more horrible crime than certain other forms of rape.

 

Do you disagree? If I caught an adult raping a 3-year old child, I would probably kill him. I don't approve of the death penalty - and I accept I would be liable to whatever penalty (including death) that the law might wish to visit upon me, but I might still kill him.

 

Imagine the following:

 

Two young people (and at my age, anybody who is less than about 45 is a 'young person'.)

 

He's 18. - Today is his birthday.

 

She will be 16 tomorrow.

 

They screw. Willingly and happily. It's rape. - She is not 16 and she is not capable of consenting to sex. That's rape.

 

Is that the same as when a rapist grabs a girl on her way home and rapes her or when the nonce rapes an infant?

 

Get real! Of course there are differences. That doesn't mean there are cop-outs.

 

By all means give a reduction in tarriff for those who admit guilt early.

 

That doesn't mean you can't hike the sentences.

 

But if you want to increase the sentence for a convicted rapist, by how much are you prepared to increase (or even introduce) the sentence for a false accuser?

 

A small number. But it does happen. I know of two.

[Rupert_Baehr]

I'm yet to be convinced, unless you associate rape and the circumstances surrounding rape as one in the same.

 

All you've seem to have done is reduce or increase the severity of rape by the associated good/bad stories by implication. There is no excuse for rape, you can excuse or try convince yourself or others by connecting it with another scenario like, 'she was up for it' or 'I beat her to a pulp because she bit me' 'I knew she was only 10 but she said she loved me', are just excuses, they're all just excuses.

 

Really? Did you ignore the direct examples I made or would you prefer to do so?

 

You've yet to be convinced? Of what? Does the victim have to be white?

 

Why have you yet to be convinced that the the rape of a 3 year old child by an adult male is more heinous than the unlawful intercourse (technically 'rape' of a (nearly) 16 year old girl by her 18 yr old boyfriend?

 

Do you think that it'S OK for an adult male to **** a small child, or is that OK if the child is black?

[Kthebean]

Lets quote the whole post ... you chose to quote it selectively.

 

Rape is rape and should be punished severely ... where it is rape (see below, later.)

 

I did not suggest that there was 'pardonable' or 'ignorable' rape, but I did suggest that an adult raping a 3-year old infant is an immensely more horrible crime than certain other forms of rape.

 

Do you disagree? If I caught an adult raping a 3-year old child, I would probably kill him. I don't approve of the death penalty - and I accept I would be liable to whatever penalty (including death) that the law might wish to visit upon me, but I might still kill him.

 

Imagine the following:

 

Two young people (and at my age, anybody who is less than about 45 is a 'young person'.)

 

He's 18. - Today is his birthday.

 

She will be 16 tomorrow.

 

They screw. Willingly and happily. It's rape. - She is not 16 and she is not capable of consenting to sex. That's rape.

 

Is that the same as when a rapist grabs a girl on her way home and rapes her or when the nonce rapes an infant?

 

Get real! Of course there are differences. That doesn't mean there are cop-outs.

 

By all means give a reduction in tarriff for those who admit guilt early.

 

That doesn't mean you can't hike the sentences.

 

But if you want to increase the sentence for a convicted rapist, by how much are you prepared to increase (or even introduce) the sentence for a false accuser?

 

A small number. But it does happen. I know of two.

 

Did you mean 'her' birthday?

 

In this case, practically speaking, I think it would be unlikely to be prosecuted.

 

I am interested to know how you know the people convicted of rape are innocent (like, were you there?) but obviously understand if you dont want to share that kind of information.

[Kaimani]

it's interesting that it's mostly men commenting (says a man commenting) but i would say this whole topic is fluid depending on who's commenting. in the old country people made business of pimping young kids(as young as 8 to 14) to older men with money. now, when the girls did it the first time round they probably screamed and cried for days. but then they began to do it 'willingly' by parading themselves etc and sending money home to their parents etc. is this still rape regardless of the fact that the girls actively stand on the street corner? i say yes, it is.

 

then there was the 'virgin will cure your aids' thing. these 'virgin' girls would be told what's involved and how they're saving a life, so, as it was sometimes their own father, uncle or other relative, the 'consented'. is this rape? i think it is.

 

the various religious nuts who marry 13 year olds.

 

i think the violence involved, regardless of it not being physical, is just as bad. how 'emotionally' mature can a 14 year old be?

 

true, in these cases the closer the age gap between the parties involved the more complex the case becomes but the law has to draw a line somewhere.

 

at the risk of irking some i think where there's any real doubt of the 'victim's ability to consent the law ought to err on the side of caution and assume the victim can't consent.

 

ps-i left out cases of obvious violence, drunk girls passed out and whatnot as we all, i think, agree it's rape.

[Kthebean]

Also, Rupert, a woman can't be charged with raping a man because she doesn't have a penis. There are other catagories she is charged under.

 

Don't try and make this a gender issue, it isnt. Plenty of men - gay or straight - are raped as well, as prosecuting their attackers is just as important.

[Kaimani]

Did you mean 'her' birthday?

 

In this case, practically speaking, I think it would be unlikely to be prosecuted.

 

I am interested to know how you know the people convicted of rape are innocent (like, were you there?) but obviously understand if you dont want to share that kind of information.

 

i did time with a kid who got a 15 year old pregnant. he was seventeen. and by the time i met him he was 22 and still doing time. (it was coz he was put in the 'nonce wing' and kept getting into fights with 'real peados' so kept getting his sentence extended.

 

the girl's parents pushed for charges etc. they were loaded. the girl was a some fancy girl's school. the kid was council estate broke.

 

the girl, who was 20 or so by then, and the kid, visited him every week. she was waiting for him. he's out now, and married to the girl he did time for.

[Kthebean]

Yes, like I say, unlikely. As you say the parents had to push for charges to be brought.