Minimum wage should be £24000+

[discodown]

Age affects the thresholds for combined WTC, JSA, HB/LHA

 

Geographical location determines the Housing costs and council tax costs.

 

Local housing market determines the LHA/HB thresholds for varying household size.

 

Number of children affects rate of WTC, CTC and their thresholds.

 

The threshold for a person is then determined.

 

Wage has fixed thresholds for NI and Tax for all. (Bar a few people born before 1931 to whom marital status is of relevance)

 

Dependent upon wage and specific threshold for claimants(s), then the amount of benefit and tax credits can be determined.

 

 

- I said people working for minimum wage often cannot claim HB as cyclone reckoned it was virtually impossible. That is not the case.

So it depends on the individual circumstances then?

[andikay]

Just to clarify this thread, people are looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

 

Benefits are not going to be raised.

 

This cap is just that. Its part of the government white paper thats working its way through parliament and one of the measures in it is to cap the amount of benefits for workless families at £26000 per year or £500 per week.

 

The way its going to work - in theory - is that the family will get their benefits as normal. Cash benefits first up to the value of £500 in any given week. Then it stops. So they would have to find their rent and council tax out of that £500 cash.

 

So for example our family the Examples:-

 

Ma Example, Pa Example neither of whom work, 3 children all under 18 all living at home. They live in private rented accommodation and get housing benefit and council tax benefit.

 

Previously they got Income support @ £275 per week

Child tax credits @ £200 per week

Child Benefit @ £45 per week

Housing benefit @ £115 per week

Council tax benefit @ £19 per week

 

Which was a total of £654 per week

 

Under the new legislation if they remain workless they will only get £500 per week and have to manage on that.

 

Like everything this is a double edged sword. For some families who are physically unable to work they are going to be punitively punished and as yet there have been no amendments to the rules to exempt people from the rule however the paper has to go through the Lords where it can be changed in any number of ways including vetoed completely out of law so it may not be lade into law at all.

 

 

How are they going to be punished?

They will still get a good income for doing nothing whilst many people that work hard will receive less.

[chem1st]

I earn less than £16000 a year and defy anyone to be able to demonstrate that there are people in similar circumstances who are better of than I am.

 

There quite possibly a million people in the UK who currently face EMTR of above 100%.

 

In particular the under 25s and those on income support.

 

EMTR above 100% might not be applicable to you, but for nearly 2% of the population it is.

 

http://www.ifs.org.uk/wps/wp0620.pdf

 

Two aspects of financial work incentives are important: the incentive to be in work at all,

and the incentive to progress in work (i.e. increase earnings). We measure the incentive to

progress using the effective marginal tax rate (EMTR); we measure the incentive to work

at all using the replacement rate (RR) and the participation tax rate (PTR). In all three

cases, higher rates correspond to weaker work incentives.

Our measures of incentives incorporate income tax, employee National Insurance

contributions, council tax, tax credits and social security benefits; they do not take

account of taxes formally incident on companies (such as employer National Insurance

contributions) or indirect taxes

 

The report neglects to take account of other indirect taxes and benefits, such as optical and dental care, travel costs, prescription of travel passes etc.

Edited May 25, 2011 by chem1st

[chem1st]

So it depends on the individual circumstances then?

Yes it does depend on individual circumstances.

 

I stated what individual circumstances it depends upon.

 

They are the individual circumstances it depends upon

[discodown]

How are they going to be punished?

They will still get a good income for doing nothing whilst many people that work hard will receive less.

Because through no fault of their own they are going to be unable to work to be able to afford rent and their standard of living will fall when they may be forced to make a choice between rent and food or medicine.

[discodown]

Yes it does depend on individual circumstances.

 

I stated what individual circumstances it depends upon.

 

They are the individual circumstances it depends upon

So not what you originally said then?

[andikay]

Because through no fault of their own they are going to be unable to work to be able to afford rent and their standard of living will fall when they may be forced to make a choice between rent and food or medicine.

 

That’s no different to people that work, through no fault of their own despite working full time they cannot afford to buy or rent a house.

Based on the figures you supplied it’s not a choice between food and housing they can afford them both.

If they get £500 a week which is more than me and I work, and pay £100 a week rent, £100 a week for all their bills that leaves them with £300 for food and I could feed a dozen people on that easily.

[nightrider]

I think what the OP is highlighting here, is that everyone is talking about the impact of cuts in benefits, inparticuarly housing benefit to claimants.

 

However, over the past few years, no one has been too bothered about the plight of people who do very important jobs, and are paid the minium wage.

 

Where would we be if everyone refused to stack shelfs in Supermarkets because the pay is too low?

 

Realistically, the minimum wage will not get to £24,000 a year for decades, but what it does highlight is what a person would need to be earning if in work, to match what someone gets who isn't working

 

no idea how you work that out - if I lost my job tomorrow there is no chance the government would give me 24k a year!

[discodown]

That’s no different to people that work, through no fault of their own despite working full time they cannot afford to buy or rent a house.

Based on the figures you supplied it’s not a choice between food and housing they can afford them both.

If they get £500 a week which is more than me and I work, and pay £100 a week rent, £100 a week for all their bills that leaves them with £300 for food and I could feed a dozen people on that easily.

Possibly so. However if you're already on more than that and you've already budgeted your life around a higher income and then it suddenly drops then it makes life very difficult. Not an issue for you or me, we can work a few more hours or get a second job. What do you do if you're physically unable to do that? What if you live in part of the country where rent is higher than here? You'll probably say move somewhere cheaper but its not that simple, you need that support network.

[chem1st]

That’s no different to people that work, through no fault of their own despite working full time they cannot afford to buy or rent a house.

Based on the figures you supplied it’s not a choice between food and housing they can afford them both.

If they get £500 a week which is more than me and I work, and pay £100 a week rent, £100 a week for all their bills that leaves them with £300 for food and I could feed a dozen people on that easily.

 

You ain't going to afford a house, when a non working person is allotted housing benefit that is greater than your wage, or the proportion of your wage you can afford to spend on housing.

 

And high housing costs are very good for landlords and homeowners.

 

Housing benefit = LANDLORD benefit.

 

The structurally unemployed are trapped by the tax-benefit system and very high EMTR which can exceed 100%. They are farmed by UK government imposed tax regime to provide a steady income for the rentier class, and to increase that income by forcing the working class to pay higher.

 

The unemployed are merely working class people whom are shepherded by the tax regime for the benefit of the rentiers.