RE teacher Gary Smith's Muslim attackers jailed

[Rowan22]

:o

I didn't know that but then I have never followed football and it sounds like I made good choice not to.

 

 

No doubt there. Like all gang violence, I believe it is about the breakdown of the family. Poor role models and attachments which lead to gang or crew affiliations. And from there to upside down attitudes to violence and other peoples suffering. In that respect, a lot like extremism in all it guises.

[flamingjimmy]

"Calm down calm down" ala scouse in a shell suit! It was only a factual "heads up" I thought you loved facts?

 

Facts that I was already aware of, and have no bearing on the points I made, but thanks for pointing them out. The Sky is blue, and 2+2 = 4, what of it?

[Rowan22]

Facts that I was already aware of, and have no bearing on the points I made, but thanks for pointing them out. The Sky is blue, and 2+2 = 4, what of it?

 

But in your other post you claimed that there was no organisation in football hooliganism. A fact which has been clearly shown to be totally wrong.

[flamingjimmy]

But in your other post you claimed that there was no organisation in football hooliganism.

 

No I didn't.

 

I said "A premeditated and planned attack on someone on their way home from work is comparable to two groups of drunken hooligans having a fight outside a pub, really?

 

These guys scoped the man out, planned their attack days in advance, and then carried it out in the belief that they were doing god's work."

 

An organised fight is not the same as a premeditated and planned attack on one man in his way home from work.

 

As I've said, I'm actually relatively well informed on the workings of some football hooligan firms, I'm no expert, but I'm not ignorant of it either.

 

I thought you'd dropped your little vendetta against me? Didn't we exchange friendly PMs about it and everything?

[Rowan22]

No I didn't.

 

I said "A premeditated and planned attack on someone on their way home from work is comparable to two groups of drunken hooligans having a fight outside a pub, really?

 

These guys scoped the man out, planned their attack days in advance, and then carried it out in the belief that they were doing god's work."

 

An organised fight is not the same as a premeditated and planned attack on one man in his way home from work.

 

I thought you'd dropped your little vendetta against me? Didn't we exchange friendly PMs about it and everything?

 

In think you may be taking me the wrong way Jimmy. Or I am coming over the wrong way. I am only pointing out the facts.

[flamingjimmy]

In think you may be taking me the wrong way Jimmy. Or I am coming over the wrong way. I am only pointing out the facts.

 

No you have built a strawman to knock down, you have disproved a claim which I did not make and are now strutting around like its some sort of victory because you'd really love to get one over on me. I thought we were past this.

[Baz1]

These guys were nothing but thugs - or wanna be thugs as is a problem in areas like Tower Hamlets today.

 

Just because they wanted to convince themselves their act was 'for God' does not mean it was or is anyway justified.

 

That would mean Muslims all over should be doing the same on a daily basis- because they follow the same religion.

 

I don't recall anyone of my Muslim friends attacking their RE teacher in school.

[flamingjimmy]

These guys were nothing but thugs - or wanna be thugs as is a problem in areas like Tower Hamlets today.

Wannabe thugs target schoolteachers because they teach about something they don't like? I think not. It takes religious fervor, otherwise there is no motive.

 

Just because they wanted to convince themselves their act was 'for God' does not mean it was or is anyway justified.

Of course its not justified. However if their belief that god wanted it to be done was actually true then it would be justified. That is how they used their religion to justify it.

 

That would mean Muslims all over should be doing the same on a daily basis- because they follow the same religion.

 

Your argument is flawed because they are not following the same religion though, theirs is slightly different to most Muslims.

 

Not all Muslims believe the exact same things you know.

[Rowan22]

No you have built a strawman to knock down, you have disproved a claim which I did not make and are now strutting around like its some sort of victory because you'd really love to get one over on me. I thought we were past this.

 

 

 

"A premeditated and planned attack on someone on their way home from work is comparable to two groups of drunken hooligans having a fight outside a pub, really?

 

These guys scoped the man out, planned their attack days in advance, and then carried it out in the belief that they were doing god's work".

 

 

These are your quotes aren’t they? Your first paragraph clearly indicates that you believe that a random brawl is not comparable to an organised attack doesn’t it?

And the second drawing particular attention to the fact that their attack was “planned” used to illustrate the difference between a “two groups of drunken hooligans having a fight outside a pub” and a “planned attack”.

 

My point was that hooliganism is and more was, very organised, planned and premeditated. To illustrate that the assumption that “hooliganism” is comparable in some respects to religious based violence.

[Baz1]

Wannabe thugs target schoolteachers because they teach about something they don't like? I think not. It takes religious fervor, otherwise there is no motive.

 

But who knows what propelled them to do this- religion is just a side issue. For what we know, they could just be vexed because a white man was teaching Asian children and they wanted to make a point. People can use the term 'religion' until the crows come home- but it does not mean it was religious from a true Islamic perspective.

 

Of course its not justified. However if their belief that god wanted it to be done was actually true then it would be justified. That is how they used their religion to justify it.

 

Then what they need is education- from the reports I have read, it seems they were more inclined towards Jihadist movements- so it is just like any other form of extremism that people can take. With the right education (which their local mosques should have encouraged working towards opening their minds and helping these misguided and angry youth of today).

 

 

 

Your argument is flawed because they are not following the same religion though, theirs is slightly different to most Muslims.Not all Muslims believe the exact same things you know.

 

Like I said, many forms of extremism exist- it is good these people have been put behind bars- may be they can reflect on their actions because no where in Islam does it encourage to attack innocent persons-Muslim or non Muslim.