American contribution to the world

[buck]

We just came back from a ten day tour of Washington, Philadelphia, New York and Boston.

I loved Boston and so full of history. There's a burial ground in the north part of the city called Copps Hill.

During the war for independence the British stationed an artillery battery inside the graveyard to fire down at Charlestown. They also used some of the gravestones for target practice. You can still see the musket ball chips on the stones.

Poor old Samuel Adams is buried in a graveyard right in the middle of town surrounded by hordes of tourists and endless traffic.

 

I wish I could have stayed much longer in that city but we did get to go on a very enjoyable tour of the Samuel Adams brewery and we were all more or less three sheets to the wind by the time the tour was over.

 

For anyone planning a visit to that part of the USA I strongly recommend a visit to Boston before they leave.

We could have had a couple of brews in the Black Dog at Fanueil had I known. Boston's most authentic Irish pub.

[Bassman62]

true, but they didn't know how to fire or reload them. Nobody had trained, or wanted to train them.

Oh but they did, having used similar calibre weapons I wouldn't have felt as secure as you even in the hands of untrained people.

[Harleyman]

We could have had a couple of brews in the Black Dog at Fanueil had I known. Boston's most authentic Irish pub.

 

We were a tour group of about 50 people on a somewhat tight itinerary. Limited free time was available but times uncertain in the two days there.

 

There was a decent looking Irish pub just around the corner from the Omni Parker House hotel where we stayed on School Street. Never had the opportunity to pay a visit though.

 

One day perhaps in another life.

[Sierra]

Amazing, this thread "American contribution to the world" has had hundreds of replies (many of them slagging off the great USA) and is still running yet the thread entitled "What has Islam done to you?" has been closed after less than 200.

 

Isn't that great? I'm so proud of everyone!

[Michael_W]

Amazing, this thread "American contribution to the world" has had hundreds of replies (many of them slagging off the great USA) and is still running yet the thread entitled "What has Islam done to you?" has been closed after less than 200.

 

Indeed, sadly this country has become home to many 'apologists', who harp on about 'The British' for 'our' past and present deeds.

Slavery, colonialism, racism, wars, capitalism blah blah blah, so of course the USA being our 'closest' ally gets the same treatment from these apologists !

[buck]

Around July 4th, I usually get at least one argumentive and drunken soul who will blithely inform me that "We wupped your asses in 76!" Whereupon I tend to ask them where their ancestors came from and when. If I'm told 1902 to Ellis Island from Lithuania or somesuch, I tell them they're not in a position to comment since the word 'we' does not apply to them.

[Rupert_Baehr]

It used to amuse me when the people in New Mexico celebrated the 4th of July ... but then again, they celebrate most days in New Mexico.

 

Vicksburg MS didn't celebrate the 4th of July until 1945, because that was the date on which Grant accepted the surrender of the town during the War of Northern aggression.

 

When people in the US ask me: "Do people celebrate Thanksgiving Day in the UK?" I say "Yes. On the 4th of July."

[Annoni_mouse]

They very nearly didnt win it. The colonists lost nearly every battle and skirmish over the years the war was fought and George Washington until near the end of the conflict wasn't the great and able general that hsitory likes to paint him as such but like all good soldiers he learned from his mistakes along the way.

 

To be honest, outside of the states, I don't think Washington is held in any historically high esteem, except to say that his greatest accomplishment, as you rightly point out, was that he kept in the fight, when most considered it a lost cause. It was a lesson that unfortunately the US did not learn and there are stong parrallels between the American war of independance and the Vietnam conflict...

 

 

On the other hand if the admiral in charge of the British fleet stationed off the American coast had had the moxy to take on the French fleet bottling up the very large British force trapped in Yorktown then history might have taken a whole different turn. Who this British admiral was is probably known to history but his name deservedly isn't worth remembering.

 

My American colonial history is a bit hazy, but I think the most important aspect of French involvment in the Revolution (and one which is frequently overlooked) is that they (the French) managed to convince the Admiralty that an attack on mainland Britain was imminent, using the involment in the colonies as an excuse. As a result, the bulk of the RN was kept in reserve in home waters to guard against this non-existent French threat, and many of the ships sent to America were older vessels. On the other hand, the French sent many newer ships to support the revolutionaries which had the latest copper bottomed hulls which allowed them to operate much closer to the shore than the older British vessels. As a result, they were able to out manouver the RN, who had to stay further out to sea than they would have otherwise operated.

 

I can understand Americans being very proud of the events that led to their indepenedence but like many things that happened in history certain other facts are conveniently forgotten by those who see it purely as a struggle between the good guys and the bad guys.

 

The British government had long before the war started declared all teritory beyond the 13 colonies to be free from colonial settlement and it was to remain Indian territory. This did not go down very well at all with the colonists and during the war for independence many colonists took advantage of the situation to cross into this new frontier and carry out a policy of genocide and wholesale destruction of Indian farms and settlements.

 

While Boston and Rhode Island were strongly for independence from Britain New York was almost 100 percent loyalist as were many living in the rural areas of the northern colonies. As for those colonies to the south including Virginia they were largely indifferent to which side won the war. Most decided to just sit the war out and settle for whatever the outcome was to be. In the end around 48,000 loyalists left for good and settled in Canada

 

Very few Indians and freed former slaves threw in their lot with the revolutionaries. Instead they placed their fate in the hands of the British.

They knew all too well which side their bread was buttered on.

 

Also it's worth noting there was considerable support amongst the British in certain quarters for the Revolution. A number of MPs attended parliment wearing blue coats in solidarity with Washingtons boy's, and there were many progressives who viewed the move towards a more libertarian society as something which should be adopted here as well as the colonies. Perhaps the greatest shame is that the war could have been avoided if Jaw Jaw had been preffered over War War (to paraphrase Mr Churchill)

[buck]

Isn't that great? I'm so proud of everyone!

There is always something happening here, the energy is endless. We have parades all the time. In Hartford, we had a parade to celebrate the Whalers Ice Hockey team making it to the sixth round of the Stanley cup one year. They eventually scooted off to Greenville NC, where they won a Stanley Cup as the Carolina Hurricanes. We just had Manchester United and City here competing with MLS teams and beating the pants off them. Big crowds mostly supporting the Manchester teams. ManU plays Barcelona tomorrow before heading home. I hope they do better than last time they met.

For the most part the thread has been handled well by both pro and anti posters, with little shots of nonsense thrown in here and there.

[Harleyman]

Indeed, sadly this country has become home to many 'apologists', who harp on about 'The British' for 'our' past and present deeds.

Slavery, colonialism, racism, wars, capitalism blah blah blah, so of course the USA being our 'closest' ally gets the same treatment from these apologists !

 

Name me a country in Europe that hasn't had it's dark moments in history

 

Russia? No comments neceassary

Germany? Ditto

 

Austria? Oppression of the Serbs during the austro-Hungarian Empire

 

Hungary? Oppression of the gypsies.

 

Poland? murderous pogroms against the Jews

 

Spain, Portugal, France? Speaks for itself

 

Belgium? The congolese people

 

 

Holland? Not exactly saints during their days in Java and Sumatra

 

That leaves only Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland