American contribution to the world

[Harleyman]

Ilk is simply a different way of saying sort. The British love to be of one 'sort' or another, especially the snobs, of which there are too many. It is not an insult to be of some ilk or another, maybe even a compliment, but I don't dish those out very often. I am not sure of Iuchi Zein's origins, so can not argue with his statements about America. I have stated to you my knowledge of Britain's past, which is far from perfect. I dare say Zein's national past could bear some scrutiny too. Our history of racial discrimination is well documented, but little mention is made of the steps taken to change things. Interracial married couples are quite common today, and draw little or no comment even in the Carolinas. The witch hunts are long gone. Joe McCarthy was totally discredited by all sane people and died a drunk. I do not seek to excuse the Mai Lai massacre in any way. I'm sure I can find plenty of European cases. All I can say is what use is there of constantly bringing up the past to expatriates and visiting Americans who had nothing to do with any of these things. It is at the least discourteous, and probably trolling.

 

I'm guessing that Iuchi Zein's origins are either mainland Chinese or Russian.

He/she has pointed out the less nobler aspects of America's history and often with some truth.

I wonder though when present day China will start to cease it's imprisonment of dissidents and curbs on free speech. It churns out endless products exported all over the world paying it's factory workers close to starvation wages. I've seen for myself the gloss and glitter that China likes to display to the world, the big rapidly modernizing cities of Beijing and Shanghai. Quite impressive but there's the other China, villages that still resemble those of a hundred years ago, pollution of air and water, an imbalance of males to females because of the government's one child policy that will within the next twenty years present a crisis of major proportions. There will be a rapid decline in the birthrate coupled with a rapidly increase of aged Chinese.

The younger Chinese will be burdened with supporting this aged population on a massive scale to their own detriment by imposing high rates of taxation on the younger generations. Not a very good scenario for the future I reckon

[Iuchi_Zien]

read this, then get real.http://www.fortunecity.com/campus/dixie/921/PoWs/pows.htm

 

So? so the UK behaved badly towards german POW's sometimes treating them as little more than slaves, this proves what? Why is it even relevent? Germany slaughtered millions of Jews does this make persecution of minorities in other countries right? or acceptable? Can African countries justify the persecution of religious minorities based on the well Germany did it argument? No! Pointing out our behaviour towards German (and Italian ) POW's does not excuse similar behaviour by other countries. It does not excuse or mitigate the human rights abuses in GITMO one jot. It simply points out that you KNOW it is wrong and not excusable.

[Harleyman]

When it comes to the history of genocide I think it's highly hypocritical to point the finger at America's record of it's treatment of the native Americans while ignoring the history of Britain's treatment of the Australian aborigines and the New Zealand Maoris.

Even today they're treated as something like outcasts.

I doubt even they have their own lands. At least native Americans were granted their own territoies. They own massive amounts of land in Arizona, New Mexico and North and south Dakota and in the last fifteen years or so Vegas type casinos and resorts have been built on them which has gone a long way to improve their standard of living

[Iuchi_Zien]

I'm guessing that Iuchi Zein's origins are either mainland Chinese or Russian.

He/she has pointed out the less nobler aspects of America's history and often with some truth.

I wonder though when present day China will start to cease it's imprisonment of dissidents and curbs on free speech. It churns out endless products exported all over the world paying it's factory workers close to starvation wages. I've seen for myself the gloss and glitter that China likes to display to the world, the big rapidly modernizing cities of Beijing and Shanghai. Quite impressive but there's the other China, villages that still resemble those of a hundred years ago, pollution of air and water, an imbalance of males to females because of the government's one child policy that will within the next twenty years present a crisis of major proportions. There will be a rapid decline in the birthrate coupled with a rapidly increase of aged Chinese.

The younger Chinese will be burdened with supporting this aged population on a massive scale to their own detriment by imposing high rates of taxation on the younger generations. Not a very good scenario for the future I reckon

 

Guess again! I would be happy to discuss the failures of the Chinese system if it wasn't so obviously off topic, oh, and let's not forget the persecutions of Tiananman square and the promises made by a number of 'western states' who seem to have remarkably short memories when it suits them, and their balance of payment!

[Iuchi_Zien]

When it comes to the history of genocide I think it's highly hypocritical to point the finger at America's record of it's treatment of the native Americans while ignoring the history of Britain's treatment of the Australian aborigines and the New Zealand Maoris.

Even today they're treated as something like outcasts.

I doubt even they have their own lands. At least native Americans were granted their own territoies. They own massive amounts of land in Arizona, New Mexico and North and south Dakota and in the last fifteen years or so Vegas type casinos and resorts have been built on them which has gone a long way to improve their standatd of living

 

So the genocide commited by the British Empire justifies the same treatment by the US? The Australian governments treatment of Aborigines and the New Zealand governments treatment of Maoris justifies the treatment of Native Americans? I'm sure the Native Americans are eternally grateful that the US government saw fit to return a tiny, uneconomic proportion of the territories they stole back to them! Tell me what are the stats regarding average wealth and health of American Indians compared to their equivelent white, or even black citizens? I find it a little bizarre that you feel the modern treatment of American Indians is anything to be proud of, Personally if I was American I would find it shameful, but then I'm not American, or am I!

[Harleyman]

So? so the UK behaved badly towards german POW's sometimes treating them as little more than slaves, this proves what? Why is it even relevent? Germany slaughtered millions of Jews does this make persecution of minorities in other countries right? or acceptable? Can African countries justify the persecution of religious minorities based on the well Germany did it argument? No! Pointing out our behaviour towards German (and Italian ) POW's does not excuse similar behaviour by other countries. It does not excuse or mitigate the human rights abuses in GITMO one jot. It simply points out that you KNOW it is wrong and not excusable.

 

What about your Red Army's treatment of German civilians when they first entered east Prussia in the spring of 1945? Have you ever read any of British author Max Hastings books? Highy respected as an authority on world war two.

No doubt the Russian's wanted revenge for atrocities committed by the Germans and take revenge they did. Women were raped and even crucified, nails driven through their hands and lashed to wooden carts, crops and farms destroyed. I dont have much love for the German's either seeing from my own narrow perspective what the Luftwaffe did to Sheffield.

It's one of the great tragedies of history that Hitler and Stalin did not destroy each other completely before 1945 along with both their evil regimes. Millions of people in the rest of eastern Europe might have been spared decades of further repression under the mad dogs in the Kremlin

[Iuchi_Zien]

What about your Red Army's treatment of German civilians when they first entered east Prussia in the spring of 1945? Have you ever read any of British author Max Hastings books? Highy respected as an authority on world war two.

No doubt the Russian's wanted revenge for atrocities committed by the Germans and take revenge they did. Women were raped and even crucified, nails driven through their hands and lashed to wooden carts, crops and farms destroyed. I dont have much love for the German's either seeing from my own narrow perspective what the Luftwaffe did to Sheffield.

It's one of the great tragedies of history that Hitler and Stalin did not destroy each other completely before 1945 along with both their evil regimes. Millions of people in the rest of eastern Europe might have been spared decades of further repression under the mad dogs in the Kremlin

 

Absolutely, the behaviour of the Russian soldiers, especially given the active support of their commanding officers was dispicable, no excuses. The fact that they were responding to the treatment of Russian/Ukrainian citizens in no way mitigates their behaviour, in fact it makes the behaviour even more dispicable, since having been on the receiving end they were aware of the pain such behaviour causes. Neither does the blitz or the bombing of Sheffield justify the coralling and slaughter caused by the bombing of Dresden, a city with little if any strategic value but filled with refugees. But I don't see how any of this has any bearing upon the subject matter other than as a smokescreen to hide/justify dispicable behaviour commited elsewhere. As to the 'mad dogs of the Kremlin', all we have to do now is spare the Iraqi people from the repression, murder and protect their human rights from the behaviour of the US and recognise and restore the human rights of all those held in GITMO, apologise to those kidnapped and taken for torture by the US authorities, do I need to continue?

 

PS it's not MY red army, at least last time I looked it wasn't, or was it?

[Harleyman]

So the genocide commited by the British Empire justifies the same treatment by the US? The Australian governments treatment of Aborigines and the New Zealand governments treatment of Maoris justifies the treatment of Native Americans? I'm sure the Native Americans are eternally grateful that the US government saw fit to return a tiny, uneconomic proportion of the territories they stole back to them! Tell me what are the stats regarding average wealth and health of American Indians compared to their equivelent white, or even black citizens? I find it a little bizarre that you feel the modern treatment of American Indians is anything to be proud of, Personally if I was American I would find it shameful, but then I'm not American, or am I!

 

Let's forget the history part for once. We've already been over that countless times.

What I want to know is when the present day government of China will cease it's persecution of dissidents and grant freedom of speech to it's citizens?

 

Dont forget (and I think I've mentioned this before) the displacement of disenfrachised Europeans, the Irish for one, who were forced to leave their countries because of tyrannical despots, abject poverty, murderous pogroms which all led to the white man's massive expansion across north America.

 

Repression in Europe led to displacement. Displacement led to native American displacement. There is no such thing as a "native American white race" They all originited from Europe at one time or another many of them victims of persecution which they in turn inflicted on the indigenous Americans.

The finger pointing therefore seems to be somewhat irrelevent

[Harleyman]

Absolutely, the behaviour of the Russian soldiers, especially given the active support of their commanding officers was dispicable, no excuses. The fact that they were responding to the treatment of Russian/Ukrainian citizens in no way mitigates their behaviour, in fact it makes the behaviour even more dispicable, since having been on the receiving end they were aware of the pain such behaviour causes. Neither does the blitz or the bombing of Sheffield justify the coralling and slaughter caused by the bombing of Dresden, a city with little if any strategic value but filled with refugees. But I don't see how any of this has any bearing upon the subject matter other than as a smokescreen to hide/justify dispicable behaviour commited elsewhere. As to the 'mad dogs of the Kremlin', all we have to do now is spare the Iraqi people from the repression, murder and protect their human rights from the behaviour of the US and recognise and restore the human rights of all those held in GITMO, apologise to those kidnapped and taken for torture by the US authorities, do I need to continue?

 

PS it's not MY red army, at least last time I looked it wasn't, or was it?

 

 

You need to spend more time getting acqainted with the media.

Only this morning on the news the Iraqi government put in a request to Obama to keep the 43,000 US troops remainng in Iraq to stay on beyond their scheduled withdrawal date.

 

The Iraq invasion anyway was the worst balls up by one of the worst presidents the US had in 100 years. Saddam for all his evil doings was a buffer against the Iranians. A sort of balance of power in that region. Now he's gone the Iranian's are free to make as much trouble in Iraq as they want to further their own interests

[buck]

Guess again! I would be happy to discuss the failures of the Chinese system if it wasn't so obviously off topic, oh, and let's not forget the persecutions of Tiananman square and the promises made by a number of 'western states' who seem to have remarkably short memories when it suits them, and their balance of payment!

How can it possibly be off topic. You are spouting off about America's treatment of other people, but pointedly ignoring any body else. I'm tired of your garbage:rant: