Cyclone Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 No I am not, I am AGAINST the theft of the land. What you have said is completely false. The land was stolen. Theft is wrong. The land must be returned to communal ownership. The land was never communally owned. It can be done so in a way where people pay rent to the community in the form of a land value tax. Other taxes can be reduced. Idle land can be used by others instead of being left idle. The LVT can be administered in such a way that certain land can be left to nature, it can also be done in such a way as to promote rotational cropping where portions of land are periodically left fallow. The land was stolen, and it should be returned, the theft should be punished and any gains arising from the theft should be seized for the community. It was not stolen from you, if (and I do not accept it) it was stolen it was from people long dead and by people long dead. It is legally owned now, not stolen, and all your proposals result in it being stolen now, your claim about it being stolen in the past is made simply to justify it being stolen now and redistributed in such a way that you benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 (In the opinion of Cyclone) He thinks that if they aren't using the land themselves (and having a lawn doesn't count as use) then they should have that land taken from them or pay a tax for the fact that they own it. A lawn does count as use, much like everything else, one just needs to pay a tax for it to ensure fairness. I edited your post in the quote to make it factually correct. The problem with using somebody else's land is that you have no rights, you have no security of tenure. So upon another persons whim, all your hard work is wasted. Would be far better for there to be allotment land available to rent which one could rent from the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 What fairness does a tax on someones lawn ensure? They've already paid to own the lawn in the first place, why should it be taxed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 The land was never communally owned. It was without ownership - it could be used by everyone. It was not stolen from you, I have never said it was. if (and I do not accept it) it was stolen it was from people long dead and by people long dead. It was stolen in the first place, by the men who said that they owned it. It is legally owned now, not stolen, It was stolen, the law is a part of the theft. and all your proposals result in it being stolen now, No it does not. your claim about it being stolen in the past is made simply to justify it being stolen now and redistributed in such a way that you benefit. It is to ensure all people have equal access to land, and to pay a fair tax for depriving others of access to land. Everyone would benefit. Those who use the land most productively and efficiently would benefit the most. Poverty would be largely eradicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 What fairness does a tax on someones lawn ensure? They've already paid to own the lawn in the first place, why should it be taxed? The tax ensures fairness to everyone else on this Earth. They bought stolen goods, (the lawn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Macbeth Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 A lawn does count as use, much like everything else, one just needs to pay a tax for it to ensure fairness. I edited your post in the quote to make it factually correct. The problem with using somebody else's land is that you have no rights, you have no security of tenure. So upon another persons whim, all your hard work is wasted. Would be far better for there to be allotment land available to rent which one could rent from the community. Perhaps the council could make the worst gardens on their estates into allotments? If people with gardens make no effort to even keep them tidy, then others could be given some sort of rental agreement to use the garden to grow fruit and veg. I'm sure the lawyers could come up with something. The council would get a bit of rent, the occupier of the house would get a much improved outlook, and the gardener would get the produce. A win/win/win solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Something that is not owned cannot be stolen. The unowned land was claimed. That's how life works, or certainly did when the land was claimed. You cannot declare a thousand years later that it was theft and must be 'returned' to an unowned state. "The law is part of the theft" This makes no sense, theft is a legal thing, you are attempting to redefine theft to mean something other than it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 The tax ensures fairness to everyone else on this Earth. They bought stolen goods, (the lawn). And conveniently for you you don't own any land and so won't have to pay any tax, but are convinced that you should be allowed to variously grow food and/or build a house on land that you don't own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Umpley Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 by chem1st's definition everything was once unclaimed. so everything must be stolen. who owned the hole in the ground where we dig clay to make bricks? was that stolen? does that make the bricks a product of theft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 by chem1st's definition everything was once unclaimed. so everything must be stolen. who owned the hole in the ground where we dig clay to make bricks? was that stolen? does that make the bricks a product of theft? Yes, and the hole and the bricks should be taxed and Chem1st should be able to use those bricks to build a house and the hole to grow food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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