Suffragette1 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 But she did say it ... bulldog face feminists ... her very words ... tut, hollie11, Mr Prime is cross with you now ... you're being tedious I'm even better looking than Germaine, and much less strident, but it still makes me giggle when people talk about hairy, dungaree wearing, bulldog faced Millie Tants. It doesn't put us lipstick lovelies down at all, because we know it has nothing to do with looks and everything to do with fairness. The whole dungaree wearing, hairy, bulldog caricature is absurd. I cannot believe that in this day and age people are still buying into it and furthermore, using it to try and justify their views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The fact that those in favour of the whole Playboy concept are arguing that it's harmless and fun and promoting the idea that treating women as sex objects, provided that there is no violence or actual sex involved, is harmless and fun. Lordy Lordy Suffragette if men want to watch women strip and women are willing to do it or Clarence wants to read Playboy in his garage or even join the club for heavens sakes what's wrong with that? You are supportive of gay rights so why not be supportive of freedom of choice as it applies to anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digglydog Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 You are clearly trying to push an agenda far deeper than the one under discussion (the protests at a private club). Why not start your own thread about the history of abuse that women have to endure, rather than taking a (semi-sensible) debate into one of your own making. I think the historical perspective is entirely relevant to this debate. My daughter's have a similar view to you .Probably as they have never experienced the discrimination and degrading treatment that women of my generation had to put up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Lordy Lordy Suffragette if men want to watch women strip and women are willing to do it or Clarence wants to read Playboy in his garage or even join the club for heavens sakes what's wrong with that? You are supportive of gay rights so why not be supportive of freedom of choice as it applies to anything else? I don't recall ever having argued against stripping or porn and if men wish to indulge in such past times, I have no issue with that. As I've said time and time again, it's the places like Playboy and Hooters that I have issue with. Oh and Lads' mags - as they're all dressed up as normal, fun and wholesome, they are mainstream. How many times do I have to say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The fact that those in favour of the whole Playboy concept are arguing that it's harmless and fun and promoting the idea that treating women as sex objects, provided that there is no violence or actual sex involved, is harmless and fun. Surely that's what disagreeing with this theory means, that you think it's harmless fun. I really can't see how anyone could consider that to be supporting evidence for the theory that it isn't harmless fun. It is not just my assertion, it's a widely held view amongst feminists and as I said, is a theory. Is that women should have the freedom to do what they choose a widely held view amongst feminists? Or is the preferred view that women should do as the feminists damn well tell them to (for their own good of course)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I don't recall ever having argued against stripping or porn and if men wish to indulge in such past times, I have no issue with that. As I've said time and time again, it's the places like Playboy and Hooters that I have issue with. Oh and Lads' mags - as they're all dressed up as normal, fun and wholesome, they are mainstream. How many times do I have to say this? They're just a softer version of the strip club aren't they? More mainstream, because they're softer, softer because nobody is getting neked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Lordy Lordy Suffragette if men want to watch women strip and women are willing to do it or Clarence wants to read Playboy in his garage or even join the club for heavens sakes what's wrong with that? You are supportive of gay rights so why not be supportive of freedom of choice as it applies to anything else? Because its not an issue of equality, its an issue of some women with a chip on their shoulder with men.... That's another point though, what about gay men visiting a female lap dancing club for a bit of fun. Would that be okay, Ruby, Suffy?...It wouldn't be about sex.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Suffragette, firstly I would like to say it is nice to see you posting again, on the forum. I haven't read all of this thread so I may have completely the wrong end of the stick, but as a fairly liberal person I would like to make a few points in opposition I think to what you are saying. But before I do I will make clear that I think the pressure put on women to conform to ideals that creates anorexia and pushes women in to situations they don't want should be challenged. I am however a realist. The sex industry is said to be the oldest industry, it certainly goes back a long way to biblical times. Banning things like this doesn't protect women it just drives them underground and creates more problems by making the environment more dangerous for them. Is being a sex object really a position of weakness? I would have thought in this context it is more likely to be a position of power.... the power the dancer has over their audience, whether female or male. I think the primary causes of the problems with our Chauvinist culture come more from a lack of understanding of sexuality that is exacerbated by prudery and moral indignation expressed at others for the way they chose to express themselves. People should feel comfortable exploring and finding their own ways to express their sexuality (consensually of course). It may seem wrong to you, so don't do it....but bans or taboos on unjustified things cause repression, confusion, pain and do as much if not more to promote the negative behaviours we all condemn. We all have our fantasies.. so long as they are consensual enjoy and explore them.... through those experiences we learn and grow and hopefully take a more adult, informed and healthy attitude to sex based on mutual respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digglydog Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Nor do the majority of men. No matter how many time you try to make a link between these private clubs and abuse, you will still be wrong. The women are the abusers in these cases, not the men. It is they that are being exploited, not the women. I think your argument may be valid if the was no power imbalance between the sexes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I don't recall ever having argued against stripping or porn and if men wish to indulge in such past times, I have no issue with that. As I've said time and time again, it's the places like Playboy and Hooters that I have issue with. Oh and Lads' mags - as they're all dressed up as normal, fun and wholesome, they are mainstream. How many times do I have to say this?They're just a softer version of the strip club aren't they? More mainstream, because they're softer, softer because nobody is getting neked. Suffragette, ok reading this I clearly do have the wrong end of the stick.... which does make Cyclone's point pertinent... Why is it ok for stripping and porn, but not the softer "more acceptable" end of the market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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