Should government fund mass house building - city size of London needed

[Halibut]

Where will they all live if more homes are not built?

 

In all the properties that are currently empty or underused if we have any sense.

[Halibut]

I'm not convinced by the 8 million extra people figure.

 

No, me neither.

[Cyclone]

So where will the extra 8 million people be living then?

Private housing. Didn't I say this already?

[Rupert_Baehr]

I'd guess cost is a major influencing factor and the fact that a lot of what we eat can't be produced in the UK for climactic reasons.

 

The UK (along with many other countries) imports large amounts of non-seasonal and tropically-grown food, but if those imports were to cease, then people would have to eat locally-produced food and the country would have to make up the shortfall caused by the lack of imports. The UK has not been self-sufficient for food for a very long time.

 

People in developed countries have a taste for non-local foods. (I think I was about 5 when I first saw a banana ...) We can import food (at the moment) but if the country is to be considered to be capable of being self sufficient, then surely the nutritional value of the food exported should meet (or exceed) the nutritional value of that imported?

 

Even where the UK can produce sufficient food to meet its needs (meat, for example) the production of that food relies on imported food for the food or on imported fossil fuels.

 

Food prices have risen sharply and are likely to continue to do so. Oil prices have risen. Imported food comes into the UK by air or by sea, and as both aircraft and marine fuel is tax-exempt, any increase in oil cost has a marked effect on the cost of freight.

 

Ferry companies (and much of the UK's food enters the country by ferry) have increased their passenger fares by about 50% this year. If the charges for freight increase by the same amount, expect not only to pay more for bananas and coconuts, but also for locally-produced pork and beef (much of which is reared using imported animal food.)

 

This paper is worth reading. It was written in 2008.

 

World commodity prices have risen markedly and global food shortages worsened considerably since then.

 

If - as the OP suggested - the country builds a city the size of London, then the country will lose that amount of land.

 

You can't grow crops on flood plains ... Well, if you do, you're likely to lose them. You can build houses on flood plains, though. (It's not a good idea because the houses flood, but hopefully you've sold them before the rains come and it's somebody else's problem. )

 

Where are you going to build your city? - You probably wouldn't be able to build one city (I don't think there's one single area in the UK on which you could build a city the size of London.)

 

When John Prescott announced the previous government's plans to build new towns in Norfolk there was an outcry. That outcry wasn't from Nimby's who didn't want a load of neighbours, it was from farmers who realised they were going to lose large areas of agricultural land. The proposed developments weren't on prime agricultural land - but nor were they on 'brown-field' sites, either. They were on agricultural land and that land is no longer available for agriculture.

 

Norfolk is a (comparatively) dry part of the country. Essex is a comparatively crowded part of the country (and it too is fairly dry.) Fields absorb water, but the roofs of houses do not. The water which falls on a field will eventually make its way into an aquifer. That which falls on a roof will go down the drain into a river - which will then flood.

 

Have there been any floods in England during the last 20 years or so? Could it be that the reduction of water-absorbing land (now covered with houses, driveways and roads) has anything to do with that?

 

Essex has a water shortage. Essex import water from Norfolk. Eventually, Norfolk will have a water shortage. And if you start building new towns in Norfolk, that problem will become very much worse.

[Bulgarian]

Where are you going to build your city? - You probably wouldn't be able to build one city (I don't think there's one single area in the UK on which you could build a city the size of London.)

 

presumably the "city" would just be rows of houses, nobody has mentioned any of the other buildings (or spaces) that a city has, so it wouldn't be as big a London is now.

[Longcol]

Where?

 

If there's so much land available (and suitable) for agriculture, why can't the UK feed its present population? Why does the UK import 40% of the food its people consume?

 

What would crop yields be if we (a) stop (or reduce dramatically) the use of agrochemicals and (b) stop (or reduce dramatically) the use of fossil-fuelled agricultural machinery? How would those lower yields compare to the already inadequate food production levels of today?

 

(We were told at the Copenhagen conference [by Milliband senior amongst others] that we would have to do that to meet the carbon emission cutbacks promised by the British government.)

 

Scotland and Wales have got plenty of empty land - but much of that is unsuitable for agriculture.

 

England is the most densely-populated country in Europe. It's overcrowded, congested and polluted.

 

The population density of England is greatly distorted by Greater London - about 15% of the population in just over 1% of the land area - take that out of the equation and it's far from overcrowded.

 

Or just take the train from Doncaster to London and, with the exception of Peterborough, you'll hardly see anything other than a handful of small towns in 150 miles - and usually you're staring at empty fields.

[Bulgarian]

Or just take the train from Doncaster to London and, with the exception of Peterborough, you'll hardly see anything other than a handful of small towns in 150 miles - and usually you're staring at empty fields.

 

the train from Sheffield to London is a different view though.

[Ms Macbeth]

In all the properties that are currently empty or underused if we have any sense.

 

Exactly. But getting people in social housing to downsize voluntarily isn't easy. The amount of housing benefit paid to a single person on full benefits/pension credit is enough for them to live in a family sized council house. No incentive there to downsize!

 

Family sized social housing properties are in such short supply that some local authorities are offering cash incentives to people to give up a three or four bedroomed houses and move into a one or two bedroomed property. Its only what many owner occupiers or private renters have to do who don't qualify for benefits.

[andikay]

THE UK will be hit by an "oil crunch" within five years that will push up food prices and threaten to bring transport grinding to a halt, business leaders have warned.

Virgin Group founder Sir Richard Branson, Stagecoach chief executive Brian Souter and Scottish & Southern Energy boss Ian Marchant yesterday unveiled a hard-hitting report they said should be a "wake-up call" about the imminent impact of a global oil shortage.

 

The report predicted shortages and price spikes in crude oil as soon as 2015, and warned it could hurl the UK into another crisis in the wake of the credit crunch.

 

We have predicted fuel shortages and rising prices because of the shortage,

Predicted power shortages

We can’t produce the power we need without nuclear,

Water shortages,

A housing problem,

Unemployment,

Traffic congestion and traffic pollution,

Ever rising food prices,

As populations density increases so does crime.

Depleted fish stocks,

Environmental Problems flooding

 

But what the hell lets continue increasing the population.

[Longcol]

the train from Sheffield to London is a different view though.

 

Not a lot between Leicester and London.