Ultra-Orthodox Jews campaign for dismantling of Israel

[vResistance]

I assume you have the same sympathy for the millions of Jews, Catholics, Gypsies etc murdered by the Nazis.

 

You assume correctly.

[CXC3000]

Neturei Karta are a nutjob, wacko sect that numbers only a few thousand adherents worldwide. Plus, they're not really opposed to Zionism, because they only believe Israel is a bad thing because the Messiah hasn't arrived yet.

 

It's odd that whoever stands up against Israeli terrorism, they're automatically regarded as 'nutjobs' or 'wackos'.

 

I'm surprised you haven't called them 'self-hating Jews' (or even anti-Semites)

[pinner]

Das for Israel being Born again,

 

AT WHICH POINT IN WORLD HISTORY HAVE WE HAD A NATION CALLED ISRAEL ? APART FROM THE 70 YEAR OLD NATION WE KNOW NOW?

Let's see.

1. The Jews left Egypt 2448 years after the World was created.

2. After 40yrs. in the desert, they entered the Land of Israel in 2488.

3. After 440yrs. King Solomon built a Temple.

4. The First Temple stood from 2928 to 3338 (= 410yrs.)

5. The Second Temple stood from 3408 to 3828 [= 70 CE] (= 420 yrs.).

6. So I make that 440 + 410 + 420 = 1270 years of prior 'Israel' (although, for part, the Southern Kingdom was called 'Judah').

[crookesey]

All my Jewish mates are not only as English as I am, they are also just as Sheffield as me. So it's no point me talking to them about it, I might as well talk to myself. How the hell does a none orthodox about anything guy like me understand this?

[Wildcat]

Neturei Karta are a nutjob, wacko sect that numbers only a few thousand adherents worldwide. Plus, they're not really opposed to Zionism, because they only believe Israel is a bad thing because the Messiah hasn't arrived yet. When he does, the idea of Israel, and Zionism, is fine. Their objection to Israel as a state isn't anything political, or anything to do with what Israel or Israeli politicians have done - its a totally religous objection.

 

To be fair I think you are talking about the Moshe Hirsch minority within Neturei Karta, who feature a lot with the far right because everything they do or say seems to be designed to provide a legitimacy for anti-semitism.

 

The main branch of Neturei Karta are not anything like as extreme.

[callippo]

all Neuteri Karta have the same basis for rejecting the notion of Israel - the Messiah has not yet arrived. But they are not anti-Zionist, because when the Messiah DOES arrive, they will morph into the staunchest Zionists you could possibly imagine.

 

the Neuteri wackos that turn up at the Free Palestine demos are the same faces again and again. Most Neuteri Karta are not anti Zionist activists - and, they are harmless. Which is why the Israelis, while they must be irritated by them, allow them to continue to demonstrate freely. I don't think they even stood in the way of Moshe Hirsch when he allowed himself, hilariously, to be set up as Arafat's 'Minister for Jewish Affairs'. And they allowed a whole bunch of them to attend Arafat's funeral.

[CXC3000]

all Neuteri Karta have the same basis for rejecting the notion of Israel - the Messiah has not yet arrived.

 

So you agree the modern state of Israel was created on a political basis, not a religious one ?

[callippo]

So you agree the modern state of Israel was created on a political basis, not a religious one ?

 

yes. Zionism is fundamenally a political movement not a religous one, same as Israel/Palestine is a political issue and not religous. But today, the huge majority of religous Jews, including most ultra-Orthodox, are Zionists. Neuteri Karta really are a far-out sect, even among Orthodox.

 

very few Jewish people are anti-Zionist, in the sense that they deplore Israel's creation and wish for its dismantlement. It's basically confined to a few wacky religous sects like Neuteri Karta, plus a sprinkling of far-leftists like Tony Cliff, who if he had any nationality at all, remained a Palestinian until the end of his life, despite his Jewishness (he was born there) - he never got nationality of any country, and he left Palestine before Israel's creation. But these are very rare.

 

of course there's a large number of Jewish people worldwide who don't support the actions of particular Israeli governments, and will even campaign on single issues and attend demonstrations - but they're very rarely anti-Zionists in the sense they want Israel to cease to exist.

[CXC3000]

Thanks for the info, callippo.

[callippo]

it's a bit distasteful in my opinion when the anti-Israel crowd goes to the lengths it does to try to get what they think of as being 'good' Jews on to their platforms, even left wing ones, where you might have thought pretty severe religous fundamentalists like them are like fish out of water. It's reminiscent of the anti-gay crowd trying to get these 'cured' homosexuals to campaign for them, even though there's hardly any.