Ultra-Orthodox Jews campaign for dismantling of Israel

[CXC3000]

I understand what you're saying, but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion (no matter how disagreeable it may seem to others).

[flamingjimmy]

it's a bit distasteful in my opinion when the anti-Israel crowd goes to the lengths it does to try to get what they think of as being 'good' Jews on to their platforms, even left wing ones, where you might have thought pretty severe religous fundamentalists like them are like fish out of water. It's reminiscent of the anti-gay crowd trying to get these 'cured' homosexuals to campaign for them, even though there's hardly any.

 

I disagree. In an ideal world, the person giving the message should not matter at all, only the truth of the message. However we don't live in an ideal world, and people will listen more intently and be more easily persuaded on an issue like this by someone of Jewish heritage, as such it only makes sense that people campaigning against the actions of the Israeli government try to bring jewish people into their cause.

[callippo]

I don't object to the freedom of expression they enjoy, not just here but in Israel too. Obviously they are entitled to their opinion and should be free to express it. It just seems bizarre when you see religous fundamentalists on the same platform as atheist Marxists.

 

also don't forget that if a bunch of Arabs started holding up placards and denying the notion of Palestinian self determination in the territories, it would all be over in minutes, if not seconds. They'd be carted off to jail and beaten up.

[callippo]

I disagree. In an ideal world, the person giving the message should not matter at all, only the truth of the message.

 

so you agree with the Neuteri Karta message then. When the Messiah comes, creating Israel is the way to go for you?

[flamingjimmy]

so you agree with the Neuteri Karta message then. When the Messiah comes, creating Israel is the way to go for you?

 

Where did you get that?

 

I was commenting on your general point about how you find it distasteful for people who are against the actions of the isreali government to go out of their way to bring jews to their cause.

 

I also think there is a big difference between that and your example about when the anti gay campaigners get some 'cured' gay to speak for them.

 

On the one hand, you have someone who has literally been sent to some camp and brainwashed into thinking a certain way by the group who he is now speaking for, and on the other you have two disparate groups who've come together on an issue upon which they both agree.

[callippo]

I disagree. In an ideal world, the person giving the message should not matter at all, only the truth of the message.?

 

so you agree with the Neuteri Karta message then. When the Messiah comes, creating Israel is the way to go for you?

 

also, if you've ever been to any meetings in the UK where Neuteri Karta turn up, you will know that they never actually say anything. They don't actually declare their message. The message is that there's a bunch of people in Jewish dress at the meeting. The organisers just use them as visual props.

[flamingjimmy]

if you've ever been to any meetings in the UK where Neuteri Karta turn up, you will know that they never actually say anything. They don't actually declare their message. The message is that there's a bunch of people in Jewish dress at the meeting. The organisers just use them as visual props.

 

Probably quite wise if they're as nutty as you say they are, sounds like a good pr idea to me, and not particularly distasteful.

[callippo]

Where did you get that?

 

I was commenting on your general point about how you find it distasteful for people who are against the actions of the isreali government to go out of their way to bring jews to their cause.

 

but you've missed the point that Neuteri don't reject Israel on the basis of anything the Israeli government has done. They reject it because the conditions to create Israel are not yet in place. The Messiah hasn't arrived.

[flamingjimmy]

but you've missed the point that Neuteri don't reject Israel on the basis of anything the Israeli government has done. They reject it because the conditions to create Israel are not yet in place. The Messiah hasn't arrived.

 

That's probably why they just have them sit there in Jewish dress and don't let them say anything, smart move.

 

What do you find distasteful about it?

 

Also, I wasn't commenting on that specific example, I was commenting on the general point which you made, as I've already said, so I haven't really missed the point, I just wasn't addressing it.

[callippo]

you may very well complain when you see Cameron indulging a spot of theatre when he wheels out the Tory blacks and Tory chav single mothers at meetings. But when Galloway does it with Neuteri it's in some way different?

 

it was such a laugh when I went to one of those meetings. The Neuteri stood up, in their Jewish dress, and got a round of applause from the crowd, not for anything they said, but just for being, apparently, Jews. Galloway then thanked them, and hilariously called them Rabbis, even though none of them were Rabbis.