Rowan22 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 So I take it then that you think for all but the tiny minority of people who actually need to eat meat to survive vegetarianism should be compulsory then? After all intensively farmed "higher order mammals" have appalling lives filled with far more " unnecesary pain" than that inflicted upon a hunted fox. Which is also morally wrong. Your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Doesn't being forced to flee in terror till you are completely exhausted also cause suffering? I'm not sure animals understand "terror" etc...just fight or flight.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Which is also morally wrong. Your point is? So do you think that eating meat should be criminalised then? If not why not? My point is that people who perpetuate the existence of factory farming have no right to even complain about fox hunting, never mind criminalise it. The drive to ban fox hunting isn't driven by concern about animals, it's driven by class, all the comments in this thread about "toffs" and so forth are evidence of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan22 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I'm not sure animals understand "terror" etc...just fight or flight.. You really aren't serious are you? The fight or flight response is an autonomic trigger initiated by fear. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4595810.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I'm not sure animals understand "terror" etc...just fight or flight.. He may just have been good at faking it of course but seeing parents old dog hiding under the stairs, trembling & jumping at every bang every bonfires, news years... would suggest to me that some animals atleast have a capacity for terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 You really aren't serious are you? The fight or flight response is an autonomic trigger initiated by fear. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4595810.ece I don't think fear is the same as terror...do you think fish feel pain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan22 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 So do you think that eating meat should be criminalised then? If not why not? My point is that people who perpetuate the existence of factory farming have no right to even complain about fox hunting, never mind criminalise it. The drive to ban fox hunting isn't driven by concern about animals, it's driven by class, all the comments in this thread about "toffs" and so forth are evidence of this. Eating meat to be healthy is an entirely separate issue to hunting animals for sport isn't it? The balance is one of neccesity over arbitrary cruelty. I have been Vegan. And the diet caused many health problems. Even with B12 supplementation and many other vitamin and mineral additions. So meat preserves my health full stop. And from this perspective I have a right to self preservation. Is it regrettable that factory farmed (which I dont eat) animals are kept in deplorable conditions? Of course, which is why I would (never) eat animals kept in this way. But to conflate the argument about killing for enjoyment and killing for survival is just silly to be honest. They are not even on the same moral plane. As for the class comments. I am just as opposed to badger baiting and dog fighting, two profoundly working class (largely) pastimes which are just as moronic and sadistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Asked and answered to be honest. And does it particularly bother me that a group of people who are in large part defined by their enjoyment of the infliction of pain on defenceless animals? Of course it does. But I am just as dead against the working class(largely) morons who badger bait and fight dogs. Cruelty is cruelty whether your wearing a deer stalker or a baseball cap. Or fishing waders? The above you wrote applies equally well to angling too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I don't think fear is the same as terror...do you think fish feel pain? Oh please terror is a variety of fear and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Oh please terror is a variety of fear and you know it. Just a more emotive word... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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