Public Sector Strikes

[Guest sibon]

That's not true and you know it. The next Labour Gvt will see to it, as they did the last time around, and the last time before that , and... you know how the cycle works Might not be an outright reversal, but new policies having the net effect of reversing. As usual.

 

For once, you are massively wide of the mark. The last Labour Government devalued teacher's pensions by roughly 15%.

 

I can't imagine any governemnt of any colour increasing public sector pensions if/when the good times start to roll again.

[Guest sibon]

Who,in government,is unelected? ?

 

At a guess, Baroness Warsi and Lord Strathclyde

 

Plus the usual suspects who influence policy from afar.

[mossdog]

I agree. We have to stand up to these unelected multi millionnaires who are taking money from us all in order to pay for the mistakes of their banker freinds...who pay nothing.

 

If we don't stand up to them they will destroy all our services, cut wages and jobs while they still live their millionnaire lifestyle.

And I guess you would just love to be living that "millionnaire" lifestyle Keith!

[L00b]

Yawn, this is Sheffield Forum not a university essay.

No essay is needed, and I see that you have noted andikay's posts about the same issue.

 

Without tax income, there is no public service (because it can't be paid for, i.e. relevant public sector workers cannot be paid, their equipment cannot be bought, etc).

 

Tax income is generated from value added on goods and services. Transactions in a competitive market are what generate added value in the first place. Any taxation downstream from that (e.g. income tax paid by public sector workers) is just redistribution of that originally taxed added value.

 

By the same token, without public services (education first and foremost, but also policing and untold more, some being more important than others), there cannot be a private sector.

 

It's a communicating vases situation, always has been. And when one side empties some (the private sector takes a bloody nose in the recession), both sides need to equalise what's left. The alternative is an increasing portion of the private sector shirking its tax obligations by any means fair (tax avoidance, relocation, offshoring) or foul (tax evasion, off the books trading), because it is bearing an increasingly disproportionate share of the burden. Landing public sector workers and public finances in an ever-worsening situation over the medium to long term.

 

Arguments about whose fault it is in the first place (Gvts, bankers, credit-crazed private and public sector-working Joe Bloggs) and about champagne-swilling bankers (who have been busy repaying what they owe from the first hour) are just useless dogma.

For once, you are massively wide of the mark. The last Labour Government devalued teacher's pensions by roughly 15%.

Not according to this document.

[Mr Prime]

No essay is needed, and I see that you have noted andikay's posts about the same issue.

 

Without tax income, there is no public service (because it can't be paid for, i.e. relevant public sector workers cannot be paid, their equipment cannot be bought, etc).

 

Tax income is generated from value added on goods and services. Transactions in a competitive market are what generate added value in the first place. Any taxation downstream from that (e.g. income tax paid by public sector workers) is just redistribution of that originally taxed added value.

 

By the same token, without public services (education first and foremost, but also policing and untold more, some being more important than others), there cannot be a private sector.

 

It's a communicating vases situation, always has been. And when one side empties some (the private sector takes a bloody nose in the recession), both sides need to equalise what's left. The alternative is an increasing portion of the private sector shirking its tax obligations by any means fair (tax avoidance, relocation, offshoring) or foul (tax evasion, off the books trading), because it is bearing an increasingly disproportionate share of the burden. Landing public sector workers and public finances in an ever-worsening situation over the medium to long term.

 

Arguments about whose fault it is in the first place (Gvts, bankers, credit-crazed private and public sector-working Joe Bloggs) and about champagne-swilling bankers (who have been busy repaying what they owe from the first hour) are just useless dogma.

 

Can't actually disagree with any of that, I just feel inclined as an ex civil servant to challenge the idea we all sat around drinking tea on a million a year. I agree both sides of society pointing the finger is useless. I do support strikes however as simple workers democracy. Imagine if everyone just shrugged their shoulders like the downtrodden of some dictatorship.

[L00b]

I just feel inclined as an ex civil servant to challenge the idea we all sat around drinking tea on a million a year. I agree both sides of society pointing the finger is useless. I do support strikes however as simple workers democracy. Imagine if everyone just shrugged their shoulders like the downtrodden of some dictatorship.

And I agree with all of that. But we have moved on a bit from your earlier (fairly dogmatic:"The private sector exists only to make money for the enjoyment of money") post

[Guest sibon]

Not according to this document.

 

Without wishing to engage in a typical Sheffield Forum linkfest, this is a summary of the changes that were made in 2006. The changes were made to ensure future sustainability:cool:

[Glennis]

I'm public sector and haven't seen a payrise above 0.5% in the last 6 years. I pay a hefty whack into my pension fund (which the present junta are looking at raiding I might add) and am looking at having my retirement age, which was agreed at my appointment, hiked by 5 years.

 

I've got it really cushy

 

Same here. I work for the university and they are bringing in a new pension scheme for the five lowest grades (1 - 5) which will see my pension, worth about 3k a year or so, haved.

 

All this while the VC has seen a 7% payrise and 30k paid in his pension pot.

 

It effectively, an upstairs downstairs policy, where the top grades maintain their final salary scheme and the lower grades are excluded. We are not talking about gold plated pensions for these workers, and we do pay a considerable sum, in proportion to our income, towards our pensions, some people affected have worked for the university since 1979.

 

For those people in their 50s its a disaster waiting to happen. We do not have time to build up a pension pot in what effectively is a private pension plan, at the whim of the markets.

 

I would like to point out, that I have never lost a days work to strike action in my life, but at the age of 57, I am out with the best of em.

[mossdog]

Can't actually disagree with any of that, I just feel inclined as an ex civil servant to challenge the idea we all sat around drinking tea on a million a year. I agree both sides of society pointing the finger is useless. I do support strikes however as simple workers democracy. Imagine if everyone just shrugged their shoulders like the downtrodden of some dictatorship.

Worth remembering as well that we are not all bankers in the private sector!.........although most of us do create the revenues to create public sector jobs...................."the private sector create tax revenues,the public sector absorb tax revenues" I am sure you are well aware of this,but a lot are not! It goes without saying that the creators will always be in the driving seat,the public sector are not really in a position to shout too loud these days, and people should realize the banks are only a small part of UKs long demise!

[Rupert_Baehr]

It's comedy hour. That will never happen here as the recent referendum showed. Perhaps you should move to Italy which plainly has a far superior political system.

 

Alternatively, you could move to Greece. They know how to look after their public sector workers.