ECCOnoob Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Let's face it, Sheffield Tories hold their meetings in a phone box, soon to be joined by their Lib Dem pals. Nothing new in the private sector? I'm sorry but between 1993 and 2007 the private sector boomed year upon year. I worked in the civil service in those years and saw what my administrative friends working for useless PR firms were earning for doing the same role. My workmates and I were only running the country. We accepted lower pay because we were promised in the long run we'd have a good pension at the end and stability in the meantime. Seems that was just hot air. Fancy that. The recession is over and according to Osbourne we are on our way again as the little people have paid our way out of it with VAT rises. I worked in the civil service during those years too and I know for a fact that there was money to be made and perks to be had. Not everyone in every sector makes millions. There has been and will always be a shop floor and a boardroom across everything. Why do public sector people feel its just them who are so hard done by? Is it simply because the union say so? Or is it because they have no fear of losing their jobs if they did strike.... that luxury that most private sector workers dont have! In my experience post 1997 when Labour took over again - they jumped into bed with the private sector, created thousands of unnecessary jobs, set up hundreds of partnership projects and part-owned outsourced companies making billions. I was involved in several of projects and saw what money could be made and more importantly the perks of having access to the public purse. Salaries were increased, bonus schemes were set up - even parking attendants in some places got put on a target bonus scheme! If you were in the right place at the right time your little admin job was transformed into a major non job such as Director of Paperclip Distribution. That came with an increased salary, flexible working options, health insurance, flexible holiday and sickness pay options, generous maternity grants (way before the employment regs changed)....... etc... etc.. Why? Because they didn't have to answer to a board of directors, shareholders, company directors.... Who was going to question where the pennies were going. Certainly not us the general public... We would have been laughed out of the door. Well the bubble has burst. So what if you are not getting the pension you were allegedly "promised". I doubt anyone guaranteed it 100%. My pension has collapsed too - just like everybody elses. Still feel like you need to strike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Without wishing to engage in a typical Sheffield Forum linkfest, this is a summary of the changes that were made in 2006. The changes were made to ensure future sustainability:cool:I certainly don't wish to engage in a linkfest, but you keep posting about the specific case of teachers, when I am considering the public sector as a whole, so there is a dialogue imbalance here. That wouldn't be the case so much, if only the teachers were going to strike (as originally planned). But as we know, the strike plans now encompass the public sector as a whole, and I understand strike claims now go well beyond the sole topic of pensions, so I believe it is fair to consider public sector remuneration (financial or otherwise) as a whole. All the same, thanks for the link. FWIW (likely not much in your eyes, but hey!), it still paints quite a sweet deal. 14% employer contribution? I wish I got any contribution, now or in the past <insert donkey number of> years! And I very much doubt I'm alone in that boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishcake Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I worked in the civil service during those years too and I know for a fact that there was money to be made and perks to be had. Not everyone in every sector makes millions. There has been and will always be a shop floor and a boardroom across everything. Why do public sector people feel its just them who are so hard done by? Is it simply because the union say so? Or is it because they have no fear of losing their jobs if they did strike.... that luxury that most private sector workers dont have! In my experience post 1997 when Labour took over again - they jumped into bed with the private sector, created thousands of unnecessary jobs, set up hundreds of partnership projects and part-owned outsourced companies making billions. I was involved in several of projects and saw what money could be made and more importantly the perks of having access to the public purse. Salaries were increased, bonus schemes were set up - even parking attendants in some places got put on a target bonus scheme! If you were in the right place at the right time your little admin job was transformed into a major non job such as Director of Paperclip Distribution. That came with an increased salary, flexible working options, health insurance, flexible holiday and sickness pay options, generous maternity grants (way before the employment regs changed)....... etc... etc.. Why? Because they didn't have to answer to a board of directors, shareholders, company directors.... Who was going to question where the pennies were going. Certainly not us the general public... We would have been laughed out of the door. Well the bubble has burst. So what if you are not getting the pension you were allegedly "promised". I doubt anyone guaranteed it 100%. My pension has collapsed too - just like everybody elses. Still feel like you need to strike? I was working there then and now - you are talking utter drivel that made me laugh quite a bit. You either dreamed this or you are grossly exagerating. Did you maybe not get your director of wild stories job and feel unhappy? you people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Prime Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 And I agree with all of that. But we have moved on a bit from your earlier (fairly dogmatic:"The private sector exists only to make money for the enjoyment of money") post That was just me meeting irriating dogma with irritating dogma, all very childish but sometimes the only appropriate response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Prime Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I worked in the civil service during those years too and I know for a fact that there was money to be made and perks to be had. Not everyone in every sector makes millions. There has been and will always be a shop floor and a boardroom across everything. Why do public sector people feel its just them who are so hard done by? Is it simply because the union say so? Or is it because they have no fear of losing their jobs if they did strike.... that luxury that most private sector workers dont have! In my experience post 1997 when Labour took over again - they jumped into bed with the private sector, created thousands of unnecessary jobs, set up hundreds of partnership projects and part-owned outsourced companies making billions. I was involved in several of projects and saw what money could be made and more importantly the perks of having access to the public purse. Salaries were increased, bonus schemes were set up - even parking attendants in some places got put on a target bonus scheme! If you were in the right place at the right time your little admin job was transformed into a major non job such as Director of Paperclip Distribution. That came with an increased salary, flexible working options, health insurance, flexible holiday and sickness pay options, generous maternity grants (way before the employment regs changed)....... etc... etc.. Why? Because they didn't have to answer to a board of directors, shareholders, company directors.... Who was going to question where the pennies were going. Certainly not us the general public... We would have been laughed out of the door. Well the bubble has burst. So what if you are not getting the pension you were allegedly "promised". I doubt anyone guaranteed it 100%. My pension has collapsed too - just like everybody elses. Still feel like you need to strike? When have the civil service union leaders said only they are hard done by? The difference is they are organised enough to do something, most just grumble their lives away which is their lookout. When the finger points at the moon the idiot looks at the finger. So what if you're contract is bogpaper? If you think that's good I suggest you get a flight to a Banana Republic and work there or perhaps Tehran? It's nice this time of year and full of likeminded employers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossdog Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I was working there then and now - you are talking utter drivel that made me laugh quite a bit. You either dreamed this or you are grossly exagerating. Did you maybe not get your director of wild stories job and feel unhappy? you people! He's actually talking a lot of factual sense!.........but you will never get it.The UK has found once again like Greece that Socialist governments always end up under water not daring to count the costs for their dreams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastbank Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 they are only striking for one day.....bet the country grinds to a halt.....hope it doesn't shut the boozers and the betting shops....oh! i forgot....they a real jobs...and not just created...like jobs for the boys/girls.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sibon Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I certainly don't wish to engage in a linkfest, but you keep posting about the specific case of teachers, when I am considering the public sector as a whole, so there is a dialogue imbalance here. That is a point that I'm trying to make, although quite indelicately. All the pension funds are different and operate to different rules, so trying to discuss them as a single entity doesn't really get us very far. All the same, thanks for the link. FWIW (likely not much in your eyes, but hey!), it still paints quite a sweet deal. 14% employer contribution? I wish I got any contribution, now or in the past <insert donkey number of> years! And I very much doubt I'm alone in that boat. Absolutely. It is a pretty good deal. I've no argument with that. That is why I'm keen to hang onto it. There are plenty of bits of my employment conditions that are far from sweet, the pension makes them a little more bearable:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishcake Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 He's actually talking a lot of factual sense!.........but you will never get it.The UK has found once again like Greece that Socialist governments always end up under water not daring to count the costs for their dreams! Factual because it fits in with what you believe? Not know. I have never experienced this as described and I have worked in jobcentres and with the permanent secretary. I will never get it because it is largely tosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishcake Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 they are only striking for one day.....bet the country grinds to a halt.....hope it doesn't shut the boozers and the betting shops....oh! i forgot....they a real jobs...and not just created...like jobs for the boys/girls.... Yes if you are talking right at the top end, a small percentage, but in general these "rich work shy loafers" work very hard for low pay. If I can get one of the made up jobs, I will come back and apologise. Until then I maintain you are talking ploppy poo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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