Tuition fees 2012 - Impact on the NHS?

[Twiglet]

Is anyone clued up on what may happen regarding tuition fees that are currently paid by the NHS when they go up to around £9,000 in 2012?

 

The NHS currently pays for the tuition fees of nurses, other selected healthcare professions and for specific years of medical and dental students. How on earth are the government going to account for this rise in spending? The students get the benefit because they essentially work part time, albeit under supervision, and the NHS essentially gets cheap labour.

 

I can only assume that either a) The NHS budget is going to increase dramatically, or b) Places will be cut, meaning there will be less students working and then less qualifying, or c) They could pass the fees on to the students but this would be unethical given the work arrangement. Anyone heard any hints as to how they may deal with it? University websites all seem to say it's 'under review'.

[Rupert_Baehr]

How many students are you talking about? If the NHS (or any other organisation) pays the fees for students at the moment, then should the fees go up, no doubt the NHS (or any other company) would expect to budget additional money to cover the additional costs.

 

You say 'either a) the NHS budget is going to increase dramatically ...'

 

Do you really think so? What percentage of the NHS budget is spent on tuition fees at the moment?

[Flowersfade]

I'm assuming places will be cut. I'm so glad I've already done my F2. I don't plan on working for the next two years anyway.

[Twiglet]

How many students are you talking about? If the NHS (or any other organisation) pays the fees for students at the moment, then should the fees go up, no doubt the NHS (or any other company) would expect to budget additional money to cover the additional costs.

 

You say 'either a) the NHS budget is going to increase dramatically ...'

 

Do you really think so? What percentage of the NHS budget is spent on tuition fees at the moment?

 

There are around 8,000 students graduating from nursing and midwifery each year, meaning that at any one time there are 24,000 who are having their fees paid by the NHS. 10,000 doctors, 9,000 other health professionals (Occy Health and Physio), 3,000 dentists. I haven't found figures for radiographers, chiropodists, dental hygienists, podiatrists, nutritionists or medical scientists. It's a lot of students.

 

I don't think the percentage of the NHS budget spent on tuition fees would be available without a FOI request. The NHS budget in 2007 was £90 billion and £4.3 billion was for training but obviously this isn't all tuition fees.

[llamatron]

There are around 8,000 students graduating from nursing and midwifery each year, meaning that at any one time there are 24,000 who are having their fees paid by the NHS. 10,000 doctors, 9,000 other health professionals (Occy Health and Physio), 3,000 dentists. I haven't found figures for radiographers, chiropodists, dental hygienists, podiatrists, nutritionists or medical scientists. It's a lot of students.

 

I don't think the percentage of the NHS budget spent on tuition fees would be available without a FOI request. The NHS budget in 2007 was £90 billion and £4.3 billion was for training but obviously this isn't all tuition fees.

 

doctors/physios etc dont get their fees paid by the nhs do they?

[Rupert_Baehr]

Thanks for the figures, Twiglet.

 

Given that the need for training is unlikely to decrease, then - as the costs are going to go up - the amount of money spent on training will have to go up accordingly.

 

Flowersfade said: "I'm assuming places will be cut. I'm so glad I've already done my F2."

 

Do you have any idea of the nuber of people who were unable to obtain F2 or other training places last year, Alyssia?

 

I'm asking because I seem to remember a news article about 10 or 12 years ago which said that there would be shortages of doctors, not because there were insufficient places fir initial training in medical schools, but because there were insufficient places for post-grad training. The government and the NHS managers have had plenty of time to re-allocate resources.

[biotechpete]

AFAIK, the spend from the NHS to universities is not budgeted as 'paying the fees' on per student basis. Rather a lump sum payment is agreed, say £40m a year, which contributes to the pay for lecturers, buildings etc. I hear that there is often little defined budgetary information behind this sum. There is always a balancing act within a university when setting the number of places.

 

The budget for teaching is obviously NOT increasing and NHS organisations are placing significant downward pressure on universities, meaning that the likes of medical schools are facing significant budget shortfalls.

 

So how are the shortfalls to be met? The likelihood is that this will be passed on in cuts, both in face to face teaching time and faculty staff. I suppose the obvious conclusion is that places will be reduced or additional fees levied. I would point out, that cutting places will probably not cut costs per se. In the end, it will depend on the flexibility of the individual NHS trusts and the strength of the university concerned.

 

There is a feeling where I work that there is a high probability that a number of schools will close or even whole universities going bust within the next few years. Whether this will result in a more robust public university sector or the wholesale privatisation of universities to move outside the fee cap...who knows.

[Twiglet]

doctors/physios etc dont get their fees paid by the nhs do they?

 

Doctors on the normal course get year 5 paid, plus year 6 if they're on a 6 year course. Graduate entry doctors get years 2, 3 and 4 paid for. Dentists get the same. Physiotherapy students do get all of their fees paid by the NHS.

[llamatron]

Doctors on the normal course get year 5 paid, plus year 6 if they're on a 6 year course. Graduate entry doctors get years 2, 3 and 4 paid for. Dentists get the same. Physiotherapy students do get all of their fees paid by the NHS.

 

even if they are going to be private physios?

[Twiglet]

even if they are going to be private physios?

 

Yes, they don't have to declare their desired career path when they apply. The principle under which their tuition is paid is that they spend a considerable amount of their degree working for the NHS under supervision.