Public Sector Pay

[ChrisT70]

I might be wrong, but I think that Happ Hazzad's point is that teachers often claim that they would have been paid much more had they gone into the private sector rather than become teachers, but what exactly would they be doing?

 

I'm not sure, but from the people I know that are teachers, I think they're on about £30k. Add the pension benefits on top, and that's quite healthy. If I was a teacher looking for more income in the private sector, it would take > £40k to persuade me to move.

 

What jobs would 400,000 people be doing for £40k? Most management jobs are advertised at between £25k-£35k as far as I can see.

 

i'm still intigued by your earlier post about your wife being NHS employed and will get a £24k pension for working part time? the NHS pension scheme pays a maximum of half final salary after 40 yrs, my sister will get around £11k pension (half pay) at age 60yrs (after 40 yrs service )when she retires unless they muck up her pension as they promised to before then.

so you wife must earn £48k part time? or is your figure incorrect?

[quisquose]

Intrigued? Downright nosey I'd say.

 

[Mecky]

It's ok banging your drum against Labour and it might be justified in some cases, but supposing the tories had been in charge in 2008 when all this came to a head, what then? I suppose it wouldn't be the Torys fault. Labour were just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and the current insecure government keeps banging on trying to influence public opinion against Labour with the only drum they have - It's all their fault, despite the fact that it was the Tories who let the dodgy banking industry begin ... a timebomb so to speak.

 

It's true to say that Labour had to spend heavily too, but this had to be done to get the country back on its feet again after the last Tory government spending cuts that ran the entire country's economy into the ground, which was the reason they got voted out in 97 - People simply had enough of them. So the cycle begins again, but will you vote Conservative at the next General Election when they try to bribe people with marriage tax cuts like I know they are going to? Let's face it, they are just so predictable.

[andikay]

Not saying it does, but to continue this propaganda the Labour left the country broke idue to them spending excessively on public spending is a LIE.

All of the western economies were laid low by the effects of the credit crunch, us more so than most because we were more reliant on the financial services and much of our manufacturing base was wiped out in the '80's.

 

Ed Balls's private papers showed that Labour had deliberately overspent in its last few years in office, ignoring Treasury warnings that public spending was too high and that the public sector urgently needed reform.

[Happ Hazzard]

Labour bragged about spending money as if it was something to be proud of. That's not fiscal responsibility IMO.

[andikay]

It's ok banging your drum against Labour and it might be justified in some cases, but supposing the tories had been in charge in 2008 when all this came to a head, what then? I suppose it wouldn't be the Torys fault. Labour were just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and the current insecure government keeps banging on trying to influence public opinion against Labour with the only drum they have - It's all their fault, despite the fact that it was the Tories who let the dodgy banking industry begin ... a timebomb so to speak.

 

It's true to say that Labour had to spend heavily too, but this had to be done to get the country back on its feet again after the last Tory government spending cuts that ran the entire country's economy into the ground, which was the reason they got voted out in 97 - People simply had enough of them. So the cycle begins again, but will you vote Conservative at the next General Election when they try to bribe people with marriage tax cuts like I know they are going to? Let's face it, they are just so predictable.

 

That’s the best accuse yet for Labour’s mismanagement of the UK economy:hihi:

[ChrisT70]

Intrigued? Downright nosey I'd say.

 

 

to be honest i think you are full of it and have been caught out. would like to know what part time job in NHS pays min £48k pa for part time work, to enable her get her a pension of £24k. assuming you didnt make it up then the pro rata must be circa £100k.?

the NHS scheme pays a max of 50% final salary after 40 yrs, no more no less. the details of it are public knowledge.

 

or did you make the 24k part time pension figure up to add to the sensationalist claims that the public sector pensions are handed out on a plate and everyone gets +20k pa pension?

 

Its really no skin off my nose if she is a domestic or the chief exec, but you dont get £24k pension in that scheme without earning double that amount as pay, and not for part time work. Querying your claim, not interested in the actual job she does.

[quisquose]

to be honest i think you are full of it and have been caught out. would like to know what part time job in NHS pays min £48k pa for part time work, to get her a pension of £24k. assuming you didnt make it up then the pro rata must be circa £100k.?

 

or did you make the pension figure up to add to the sensationalist claims that the public sector pensions are handed out on a plate and everyone gets +20k pa pension

 

Thanks for the insult. The smiley really helped.

 

Okay.

 

First. Your sisters' pension is £11k ... but you mention this is for retiring at 60. I gave the 65 figure for my wife. If you get your sister to look at her "Pension Choice Decision" document, get the figure for 65 so we are comparing the same, it might be £2k-£6k more.

 

Second. Not everybody who works in the NHS is on an average wage you know. Hospital consultants will be on £100k+ for example. I'd rather not discuss my wife's job or salary on a public forum thank you very much.

 

I never made the claim, sensationalist or otherwise, that everybody in the NHS gets £20k+, I merely mentioned my wife's pension in relation to the equivalent annuity required to fund it.

 

Your sister's £11k pension at 60 would require a fund of a quarter of a million in the real world. It really is a very good pension to have on top of the state one.

[ChrisT70]

Thanks for the insult. The smiley really helped.

 

Okay.

 

First. Your sisters' pension is £11k ... but you mention this is for retiring at 60. I gave the 65 figure for my wife. If you get your sister to look at her "Pension Choice Decision" document, get the figure for 65 so we are comparing the same, it might be £2k-£6k more.

 

Second. Not everybody who works in the NHS is on an average wage you know. Hospital consultants will be on £100k+ for example. I'd rather not discuss my wife's job or salary on a public forum thank you very much.

 

I never made the claim, sensationalist or otherwise, that everybody in the NHS gets £20k+, I merely mentioned my wife's pension in relation to the equivalent annuity required to fund it.

 

Your sister's £11k pension at 60 would require a fund of a quarter of a million in the real world. It really is a very good pension to have on top of the state one.

 

in relation to your answer (and no insult was intended or given) and your orginal post, you seem to have not accepted that the NHS and other public sector schemes cannot be directly compared to "private pension pot" systems where as you say £500k or more might be needed.

taxation levied annually is taken into account and the schemes do not need any magic figure pot to fund them, its built into taxation and budgetary spending.

 

there is plenty of evidence to show that the public sector pensions are manageable longer term, and can be funded, and yes the people probably do need to up their contributions.

 

the £24k pa pension that you mentioned for part time work (in either the pre 2008 scheme or the newer scheme) is still based on a final salary, not career average, and therefore by default your wife must be earning at least 48k per annum part time in the 2 schemes regardless of retirement age. which then begged the comment i made earlier about it being nice work if you can get it.

should anyone be earning £48k for part time work in the NHS? hence me asking what is that role and is it justified to earn that amount part time out of the public purse?

 

i do have a gripe as such with the "really" big earners in the public sector taking £100k-300k pa in pay (and there are MANY of them if you count all GPs, consultants , council leaders, whitehall managers) all then taking 50%

of their final salary as a pension, its those sort of levels that are unrealistic , not the average joe/joesephine on £22k who now face their 40yrs working pension scheme being hammered and cut. the vast majority of the public sector will not be getting more than £10k pa pension after a long working life.

 

the many thousands of public sector earners taking more than £100k+ pa should imho be given a capped pension of say £30k pa max (which is a hell of a lot) and make their own provision outside that if they wish to have a 50k pension in retirement. maybe then the pension schemes would be fairer and more affordable without hammering average earners who did indeed take a job paying slightly less than the private sector for the security and other benefits.

 

over the last decade all thats happened within the public sector is a copy of the private sector, with the very high earners making a nest for themselves with massive pay increases and joe public not getting much if anything better. GPs have been given over 100% payrise in total apparently during the last govt administration within the scope of new contracts. bonuses of £76k per annum (on average) according to some information, which are given for life, regardless of performance, and cannot be removed.

 

the private sector average pension should be brought up to a minimum standard, and people made to save for their retirement, too many are deciding to say sod it let the welfare state look after me when i retire.

[ChrisT70]

to add, nothing personal intended if she is indeed a GP, they have merely taken advantage of a lax remuneration system for them, as most people would!