Public Sector Pay

[quisquose]

The PAC seems to think that more information is needed about public sector pensions, but they are certainly more affordable today than they were five years ago. Which asks a very big question about the Government's motivation.

 

As for using annuities, they are not the only way to fund a pension. Five people paying £200 per month into a pension pot will fund an £11K pension, with a bit to spare. That is what happens in the "imaginary" world of teachers, police, nurses, doctors etc. Meanwhile those in the real world, hidebound by management fees and poor investments, need a quarter of a million quid on the stockmarket to achieve the same as five coppers.

 

Food for thought, maybe.

 

Five people paying £200 a month into a pension pot over 20 years would definitely accumulate adequate funds to pay a 60 year-old an £11k pension.

 

Why five people though, what about the other four? Are you proposing a Ponzi scheme?

 

I agree with you on fees etc though. I don't have a pension, but I'm good with money generally, good at saving and investing, and prefer the flexibility of taking care of myself. Admittedly I do have the security of the wife's pension as well.

 

I hate it when these discussions turn into politics. Politicians of all colours have failed miserably on this issue, as they always do with issues that span more than one government, nevermind more than one generation. MPs voting to give themselves a 20/40ths scheme, just as the private sector was closing schemes, was scandalous.

 

Basically people are living longer and healthier. The sensible solution is that as we live longer, we work longer, but politicians are not brave enough to address this. (With the exception of only very recently).

 

We are now spending less than half our lives in employment. I don't believe the claims that any scheme, public, private or otherwise can provide pensions of half of somebody's salary, and be anything close to affordable. I certainly don't believe any of the union claims, and I've read a lot, that any public sector schemes are affordable to future generations.

 

I'm not saying that the private sector has addressed the problem well, but at least it has addressed it, if only because it had to.

 

The idea that public sector employees deserve higher pensions because they get lower wages might have had some basis in truth 20 years ago, but it isn't now. The OP about how public sector pay has caught up with private sector pay, which I think is true. My company, and many like it, doesn't have annual pay reviews, and there are people here that haven't had a pay rise in over 6 years. This is quite typical.

 

I would be happier with a system where everybody is treated equally, and the benefits of choosing an job is more visible without the need for mental gymnastics to work out the value of a pension scheme. Also, I don't trust unions or politicians, or the people that take sides, on this issue.

 

Here's my solution btw:

 

1. Keep it simple.

2. Everybody is provided the same basic and decent pension funded from taxation. Decent enough to more than just exist, and at least 50% more than currently.

3. The retirement age must be moved up and down in line with life expectancies.

4. Any individual choice to improve their retirement income should be that, a choice, but not a choice that receives tax benefits. Any savings towards a pension should be after tax, just like any other savings. Any contributions to savings made by an employer should be subject to tax, just like any other benefits.

5. Keep it simple.

 

Quite radical eh? It'll never happen

[andikay]

The FACT of the matter is Labours cuts are 80% of the Tory cuts, and that's from a Tory MP's mouth. They would have been implemented at a slower rate. Tory politicians who have never done any work that involves actual work can make cuts easily as they have little in the way of empathy.

 

With regards to the theoretical framework you know perfectly well that if Blair had taken measures to get a grip on the city then he would have been castigated by your friends at The Telegraph, Mail and Sun as an evil interfering socialist. You would have agreed with them too. The word hypocrisy doesn't even cover it.

 

No I don’t know and that neither do you, it’s a different reality with many different outcomes, in our reality Labour messed up against good advice. Our problems were caused by an asset bubble that Gordon Brown helped to inflate and he thought it would never burst, he was wrong it burst and we are no suffering the consequences.

[Mr Prime]

No I don’t know and that neither do you, it’s a different reality with many different outcomes, in our reality Labour messed up against good advice. Our problems were caused by an asset bubble that Gordon Brown helped to inflate and he thought it would never burst, he was wrong it burst and we are no suffering the consequences.

 

Cut the bull son, you know perfectly well what would have happened. Christ, it's not rocket science.

[quisquose]

I see L00b beat me to it with the Ponzi/Pyramid scheme observation.

 

[andikay]

Cut the bull son, you know perfectly well what would have happened. Christ, it's not rocket science.

 

Rocket science is based on facts, whereas your assumptions are based on biased speculations of how events would run in an alternative reality, you cannot possibly know how a decision made differently years ago would change our reality.

All this speculation doesn’t alter the facts, labour were in power and they messed up, we are now suffering the consequences of their mismanagement of the economy, and I don’t think it’s wise listening to Labour about how they would fix the problem they helped to cause.

[Mr Prime]

Rocket science is based on facts, whereas your assumptions are based on biased speculations of how events would run in an alternative reality, you cannot possibly know how a decision made differently years ago would change our reality.

All this speculation doesn’t alter the facts, labour were in power and they messed up, we are now suffering the consequences of their mismanagement of the economy, and I don’t think it’s wise listening to Labour about how they would fix the problem they helped to cause.

 

You know as a hard fact how the Tories have always dealt with the city. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest they would have changed course had they been in power in the last ten years. As there is no evidence it is safe to say they would have had the same levels of regulation or even less. Therefore exactly the same recession would have happened. You can bluster till you're blue in the face but what I am saying is fact, not speculation and you know it, do not attempt to deny it, it just makes you look like a partisan reality denier trying to score points.

[truman]

You know as a hard fact how the Tories have always dealt with the city. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest they would have changed course had they been in power in the last ten years. As there is no evidence it is safe to say they would have had the same levels of regulation or even less. Therefore exactly the same recession would have happened. You can bluster till you're blue in the face but what I am saying is fact, not speculation and you know it, do not attempt to deny it, it just makes you look like a partisan reality denier trying to score points.

 

Could you give me this week's winning euromillions numbers please as it appears you're a bit of a psychic....

[Mr Prime]

Could you give me this week's winning euromillions numbers please as it appears you're a bit of a psychic....

 

I use the balance of probabilities and Occam's Razor to influence my thinking. Others use fantasy that their beloved Tories would have been really shrewd and avoided recession! Amazing wilful naivete worthy of a sixth form student, not a grown adult. Even after all that happened stupid Boris Johnson was complaining about banker bashing.

[truman]

I use the balance of probabilities and Occam's Razor to influence my thinking. Others use fantasy that their beloved Tories would have been really shrewd and avoided recession! Amazing wilful naivete worthy of a sixth form student, not a grown adult. Even after all that happened stupid Boris Johnson was complaining about banker bashing.

 

Were you of the same mind when G Brown Esq. promised no more boom and bust...? The fact is that Labour were at the helm when it all went pear shaped...anything else is just a guess...could be right,could be wrong..you'll never know..

[Mr Prime]

Were you of the same mind when G Brown Esq. promised no more boom and bust...? The fact is that Labour were at the helm when it all went pear shaped...anything else is just a guess...could be right,could be wrong..you'll never know..

 

It's so obvious I can and do say I know. Only a cretin would suggest that the Tories would have tightened their grip on the city and avoided recession. You can make points about gold being sold off cheap but the recession would have happened guaranteed and you know it and I know that regardless of what you say on here you know it, you should be a man and admit it really but that's not going to happen is it?