Public Sector Pay

[Funky_Gibbon]

OK we've heard from people on here that the reason public sector pensions are so good is to make up for their poor pay...what are people's thoughts on this report.?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8618483/Public-sector-workers-paid-more-official-figures-show.html

 

Is the ONS report correct or have they got it wrong..?

 

As the ONS report states, and the Telegraph article states (way down at the bottom of the article):

 

The average private sector worker with a degree or similar qualification was paid 5.7 per cent better than their equivalent in the public sector. But the bottom five per cent of earners were paid £6.77 an hour in the public sector, but just £5.80 an hour in the private sector.

 

The ONS report also states:

The public sector workforce contains more people with a degree or an equivalent qualification, 38 per cent in 2010, compared with 23 per cent in the private sector

 

A couple of things to point out.

 

The very lowest paid jobs that used to be in the public sector (cleaners for example) are now contracted out to the private sector. This adds to the distortion of any simple averaging of pay.

 

As a proportion there are nearly twice as many degree qualified workers in the public sector than in the private sector according to the ONS. This is because a lot of jobs in the public sector are specialised. Those workers, who make up pretty much all of the highest paid (£16,000 upwards is about standard for a degree in the public sector) are paid less than they would be in the private sector. People without that qualification (earning less than £16,000) are paid slightly better than they would be in the private sector - this is partly down to the public sector treating female workers more equally than they are treated in the private sector.

 

 

To address your statement "the reason public sector pensions are so good is to make up for their poor pay", the ONS report and the Telegraph report both show that for the top 38% of the public sector the pay is poorer when compared with the private sector. It's those pensions of those at the top that have been claimed to be excessive, they're the ones that tabloids and ministers have quoted ad infinitum. But as the ONS points out the claim that those pensions are better to make up for lower pay is TRUE.

 

The pensions of those who aren't degree qualified and so earn relatively low wages (sub £16,000) compared to the national average can only be seen as 'excessive' when compared to private sector workers who are paid so little by their companies that they can't afford them. That's an argument for paying the lowest paid of the private sector more, not for reducing the pensions of other people until they are equal in their deprivation and misery.

[MeMyself&I]

the report says they have taken April pay against April pay, they have not included the bonuses that people in the private sector may get. Reporting also goes on to state that many of the jobs outsourced by the public sector were in the lower paid areas (cleaners, dinner ladies, bin men etc) this alters figures, these people may work for private firms but they are ultimately paid for the the public sector.

[crookesey]

Only if you do the same with your blue walking stick Gramps!

 

Well at least I've got there laughing boy. I can never understand folk having a pop at someones age, unless it's me with flyer, but we understand each other. What are you like with ethnicity, hair colour, freckles etc;?

 

I wish you luck with your obvious dislike of longevity.

[Ms Macbeth]

One area of the public sector which is overpaid is the civil service, i.e dwp, home office, jcp office staff are totally overpaid for what they do. I worked for them for 12 years so have the right to say ths. I left. Found other office work for private companies to have a lot more responsibility, less benefits and lower pay! Cut their wages and up nurses etc...

 

I think that depends on the job. After I retired at 60 from a mid-range job in local government I had a couple of part time jobs. One was in the civil service at admin officer level. The job wasn't clerical, it involved making decisions which affected people's lives. The information that staff had to understand and apply was complex, and constantly changing. Yet those jobs were paid at about the same level as a clerk in local government. I thought they were underpaid for the level of responsibility in comparison to some other public sector jobs.

 

I make that comparison because before joining the civil service, I got a clerical grade job in a council office, where I was paid about the same but had very little responsibility. Filing, inputting info and replenishing the stationery cupboard being the most arduous. It wasn't for me, so I moved on.

 

In comparison to the above - few (if any) clerical jobs in the private sector could match up in terms of salary, or terms and conditions like maternity leave or pensions.

 

Its pretty impossible to compare some public and private sector jobs. Teachers, nursing and other clinical staff, and police/fire service etc are all specialisms that rarely exist outside the public sector.

 

In my experience (12 years in local government) many lower level jobs in the public sector do pay more, but specialists in IT or finance for example are likely to be much better off in the private sector.

[ChrisT70]

5/80 of a teacher's salary would accrue a pension of approx £1500 pa. Not bad for 5 years employment.

 

Somebody in the private sector will need an annuity of £30k to provide that.

 

Edit: My wife got some pension literature from the NHS yesterday. She works part-time, but if she sticks it out until she's 65 she'll be entitled to a pension of £24k. She was a bit shocked when I told her she would have to save nearly half a million to get those benefits if she was doing it for herself.

 

your wife must be earning £48k part time then? my understanding is you can only get 40/80ths (ie half final salary) in the NHS scheme after 40yrs service?

nice work if you can get it. what does she do?

[alex3659]

:hihi:,,"Stick your red flag where the sun don't shine".

"Only if you stick your walking stick there".

 

One doesn't like red flags the other doesn't like longevity.

 

 

Will this have any effect on public sector pay or is it just a bonding thing??.:hihi:..

[wednesday1]

:hihi:,,"Stick your red flag where the sun don't shine".

"Only if you stick your walking stick there".

 

One doesn't like red flags the other doesn't like longevity.

 

 

Will this have any effect on public sector pay or is it just a bonding thing??.:hihi:..

 

 

 

I thought you wouldn't be able to pass-up the opportunity to enjoy your old mate's discomfort!

 

 

Me and Crookesy, we're like THAT!

[Obelix]

I work in the public sector as everyone knows and have been looking for a new job for a while before accepting VERS from my current employer. They're aren't too many jobs around but the ones that are are around 3-4k more than my current salary.

 

Let's face it, what is a percentage? A percentage can mean anything that the author/compiler wants it to mean. so why did you try and pull me up, rather than someone with similar views?

 

Sorry I asked to give a reason why the article wasn't accurate. It's up to you to defend your assertion - can you?

 

If not I'll write it off to yet more of your biased diatribe.

[crookesey]

I thought you wouldn't be able to pass-up the opportunity to enjoy your old mate's discomfort!

 

 

Me and Crookesy, we're like THAT!

 

I think that I'm about to be sick.

[wednesday1]

I think that I'm about to be sick.

 

 

Do you need a homehelp?