scottf Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I could Google it and post a link to them all but you are probably capable of doing that, and you are also capable of finding the evidence you need to prove one way or another, as I said I can’t find anything that says we are obliged to offer it, and the rules determining who is entitled to legal aid change from country to country. Legal aid systems exist in all EU Member States. They differ from one another in terms of the nature and scope of the aid available and the conditions for entitlement, but the aim of all systems is the same: to ensure effective access to justice for all. The website says all and then says Denmark does not participate in this area of Community action. Well i think L00b's post above yours gives you the relevant info. So are you saying that "the aim of all systems is the same: to ensure effective access to justice for all" - is a bad thing??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andikay Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Well i think L00b's post above yours gives you the relevant info. So are you saying that "the aim of all systems is the same: to ensure effective access to justice for all" - is a bad thing??? No it doesn't it’s about UK legal aid and we are talking about some rules that L00b thinks exists that says under EU regulation we have to give free legal aid to all immigrants. I can't find that rule, L00b hasn’t posted a link to that rule and from what I have read the rules doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 No it doesn't it’s about UK legal aid and we are talking about some rules that L00b thinks exists that says under EU regulation we have to give free legal aid to all immigrants. I can't find that rule, L00b hasn’t posted a link to that rule and from what I have read the rules doesn't exist. Oh alright then, if you can't be arsed, here's a link explaining it (the "Returns" Directive, voted 2008 ). Better explained here, but in french language, so grab your Google translator The bit you are looking for is: Legal aid subject to the terms of the "procedure" directive The directive provides for legal aid to be granted to illegal immigrants who have no resources, albeit “in accordance with relevant national legislation or rules regarding legal aid" and with the “procedure directive” of 2005 on aid to asylum seekers The "Returns" Directive guarantees legal aid to asylum seekers across the EU. The "Procedure" Directive dates back to 2005, effectively setting up the scene for the above, and was already in effect in the UK. That has allowed the UK and Ireland (and Denmark, oddly not mentioned in the article) to opt out of the Returns Directive (they already have 'special' arrangements for Justice and Interior Affairs). EDIT - By the way, while I'm at it: <...>some rules that L00b thinks exists that says under EU regulation we have to give free legal aid to all immigrants I never said that, and only ever refer to asylum seekers in my posts. Maybe you should do a bit less assuming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think the issue people have with legal aid in these cases is that there should not be any need for lawyers to get involved. Surely a sensible assylum system would provide anyone claiming assylum to make their claim and provide a translator free of charge if their English is poor. The assylum seeker can then provide a statement of where they are from, how they got here and why they belive they should be given assylum. That is then assessed against the relevant criteria and they are either given assylum if their case is well founded, immediately deported if their case is without merit or given leave to stay for say, two months, if further enquiries are needed to confirm the veracity of their account. No need for lawyers telling their clients how to "win", just the opportunity to give an honest account of the circumstances leading to their assylum claim and a swift decision based on the law of this country as to whether they are or not to be granted assylum. I know the current system is nothing like this and is a complete shambles and I can see why an assylum seeker may well want a lawyer who knows "the system", but surely it would work to genuine assylum seekers advantage if the system was much simpler and based on telling the truth rather than trying to play "the system"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think the issue people have with legal aid in these cases is that there should not be any need for lawyers to get involved. Surely a sensible assylum system would provide anyone claiming assylum to make their claim and provide a translator free of charge if their English is poor. The assylum seeker can then provide a statement of where they are from, how they got here and why they belive they should be given assylum. That is then assessed against the relevant criteria and they are either given assylum if their case is well founded, immediately deported if their case is without merit or given leave to stay for say, two months, if further enquiries are needed to confirm the veracity of their account. No need for lawyers telling their clients how to "win", just the opportunity to give an honest account of the circumstances leading to their assylum claim and a swift decision based on the law of this country as to whether they are or not to be granted assylum. I know the current system is nothing like this and is a complete shambles and I can see why an assylum seeker may well want a lawyer who knows "the system", but surely it would work to genuine assylum seekers advantage if the system was much simpler and based on telling the truth rather than trying to play "the system"? And in steps another voice of reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andikay Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oh alright then, if you can't be arsed, here's a link explaining it (the "Returns" Directive, voted 2008 ). The bit you are looking for is: The "Procedure" Directive dates back to 2005 and was already in effect in the UK. EDIT - By the way, while I'm at it: I never said that, and only ever refer to asylum seekers in my posts. Maybe you should do a bit less assuming The UK and Ireland are not affected by the directive because they have not opted into this area of Community law. The UK government argues that a strong returns regime in the EU is in everyone's interest, including the UK. But it is not persuaded that this Directive delivers the strong returns regime that the EU needs and that's why the UK government has chosen to exercise its right not to participate in this proposal. The directive provides for legal aid to be granted to illegal immigrants who have no resources, albeit “in accordance with relevant national legislation or rules regarding legal aid" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottf Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The UK and Ireland are not affected by the directive because they have not opted into this area of Community law. The UK government argues that a strong returns regime in the EU is in everyone's interest, including the UK. But it is not persuaded that this Directive delivers the strong returns regime that the EU needs and that's why the UK government has chosen to exercise its right not to participate in this proposal. The directive provides for legal aid to be granted to illegal immigrants who have no resources, albeit “in accordance with relevant national legislation or rules regarding legal aid" U know what we need to sort this argument out?? A lawyer!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangolemon Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 It's got nothing to do with the colour of anyone's skin. ...And the whites are leaving, and that's not a good thing, either. Why, Karis, are you obsessed with skin colour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andikay Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 U know what we need to sort this argument out?? A lawyer!!! Will we get legal aid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treatment Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 This dialogue reminds me of something my grandad said to me many years ago Fishcake, he always reminded me that when I was out and about I had to assume I was seen as a representative of the black community and 'we' would be judged harshly if I behaved badly or even ambivalently. If I visited the doctor/hospital/library I had to put a suit on and Brylcream my hair, even as a very young lad. Old habits die hard and I still feel the need to 'dress up' when in such situations..sadly I've little hair on which to lavish the Brylcream nowadays![/QUOTE] Join the club Boyfer, my bloody 23rd birthday present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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