Would a tram made in Sheffield be better than one made in Germany?

[Rupert_Baehr]

Don't know about the lazy bit but perhaps paid too much.

 

Really?

 

Is that why so many British Engineers emigrate?

 

They emigrate because they get paid to much money for doing too little in the UK?

 

Thanks for telling me.

[NorthernStar]

QUOTE=anywebsite

 

How many tram builders are there in Sheffield? or even the UK?

 

We do have people with the skills in Derby who are losing/lost jobs due to our non protectionist views to the point that our neighbours in countries like France and Germany would simply not tolerate.

 

Why should we pay more for lower quality, just because our firms aren't competitive in some areas against some foreign companies? How is that supposed to help them to compete globally?

 

Who said anything about lower quality?

There are both social and economic benefits involved in keeping skilled people employed, our competitors take this into consideration unlike us.

 

If other countries want to be protectionist, then it hurts them economically. They pay more for worse goods & their government supports the firms that overcharge for poor quality, which gives them no incentive to improve so that they're able to compete globally & sell their goods abroad. It'll also hurt foreign investment, as foreigners would rather invest in a country where they aren't likely to be pushed out by subsidised local firms.

So you think countries like Germany and France are hurting economically compared to us do you?

 

It's better to just buy the best value, no matter where it comes from.

[ECCOnoob]

Yeah but bombardier's products are crap and expensive that's why they are losing bids and everyone is going to other manufacturers.

 

Its hardly rocket science.

[anywebsite]

So you think countries like Germany and France are hurting economically compared to us do you?

 

Yes I do actually & most of it can easily be blamed on protectionist policies. France has a higher population than the UK, much more land area, huge subsidies from the EU, higher unemployment, higher national debt & a lower GDP. There are the hundreds (thousands?) of immigrants stuck at Calais desperate to get out of France for the UK, they know which country has the best opportunities.

[anywebsite]

Yeah but bombardier's products are crap and expensive that's why they are losing bids and everyone is going to other manufacturers.

 

Its hardly rocket science.

 

If they weren't hopeless, then they wouldn't need 'protecting'.

[Rupert_Baehr]

So you think countries like Germany and France are hurting economically compared to us do you?[/color][/i]

 

It's better to just buy the best value, no matter where it comes from.

 

Awwww... C'mon!

 

We all know it's a conspiracy! those bloody Europeans reckon that they are far better than the Brits, but we all know the Euro is in a mess!

 

The PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain) have screwed he Euro so deep into the ground it will never recover!

 

Ignore what the Meeja tellya and look at the 'facks'!

 

When the Euro was first launched, one Pound Sterling bought you 1.65 Euros.

 

The Euro stared on the slippery slide straight away. IN 2007, One pound only bought 1.47 Euros and today - thanks to the skill and fiscal responsibility of a series of 'gummints' the Pound will buy you about 1.10 Euros .. if you're quick!

 

Those are unpalatable 'facks' so you can always consider the other lot which tell you that the Pound is - of course - one of the strongest currencies on the planet and the reasons for price increases which outstrip inflation have nothing to do with the UK's ****-poor attempts to influence the balance of payments (and the huge deficits arising therefrom) but are rather caused by Johnny foreigner.

[anywebsite]

A low pound isn't a bad thing, it helps our companies to grow. If we were in the Euro, then the economy would be in a worse state right now & would have a lower chance of improving in the near future. Think what the balance sheet would look like without a low pound to help it out. The Euro is falling apart because the different economies involved are too different, one interest rate & currency was never going to fit Germany and Greece and Itay and Spain. Not without a lot more European integration first.

[Bing'o'Merry]

It isn't protectionist to train a better calibre of engineers here that can compete and win contracts on a level playing field. That's where the "subsidy" should be.

 

It would certainly be better to have trains built locally so we dont waste fuel and other resources shipping them here. Ideally all the parts should also come from local sources. The only thing that should come from abroad is maybe the design and even then only if it's better.

[NorthernStar]

Yes I do actually & most of it can easily be blamed on protectionist policies. France has a higher population than the UK, much more land area, huge subsidies from the EU, higher unemployment, higher national debt & a lower GDP. There are the hundreds (thousands?) of immigrants stuck at Calais desperate to get out of France for the UK, they know which country has the best opportunities.

 

But GDP growth in France and particularly Germany is higher than ours and increasingly so, the pound is inflating more and more to the point that the chancellor has openly had to admit he is worried about it more than doubling his predictions.

 

The German manufacturing is actually benefiting from the current trouble the Euro is going through as this has made it even more competitive, though I'm glad we're not in it owing to its unpredictable outcome.

 

As for the other stuff I just can't be arsed to find out since you've discredited your argument by lying about the GDP growth bit.

[Rupert_Baehr]

Could we please apply a bit of 'honest perspective' here?

 

But GDP growth in France and particularly Germany is higher than ours and increasingly so, the pound is inflating more and more to the point that the chancellor has openly had to admit he is worried about it more than doubling his predictions.

 

The German manufacturing is actually benefiting from the current trouble the Euro is going through as this has made it even more competitive, though I'm glad we're not in it owing to its unpredictable outcome.

 

As for the other stuff I just can't be arsed to find out since you've discredited your argument by lying about the GDP growth bit.

 

Considerthe bits in bold:

 

GDP growth in Europe (Fr/DE is higher thna it is in the UK. - No argument.

 

The 'Weak Pound' (Pound is inflating) helps British industry (on its own, that statement is true.)

 

BUT The 'current trouble the Euro is going through' (Weak Euro???) helps German exports.

 

I've got a Master's degree which includes international economics and I speak simple English. My granny taught me how to cut through the crap, so let's start here:

 

1. The Euro is weak. (I bet the grass grows high in your garden ... Bullsh*t makes grass grow really well. When the Euro started, one Pound bought 1.65 Euros. In 2007, One Pound bought 1.47 Euros but now that the Euro is under such great pressure, one Pound only buys 1.10 Euros.

 

The Euro is under great pressure and the Pound is strong. That's why the pound is worth less than 2/3 of what it was worth when the wimpy Euro was founded.

 

At one time, the Euro and the Dollar were trading almost at parity. today, you have to pay $1.43 to buy a Euro. That's because the Euro is so weak.

 

Yeah, right!

 

GDP Growth in France and in Germany is high because people are working. In the UK, they're claiming benefits.

 

Benefit fraud in the UK is (allegedly) small, but it IS significant.

 

In most of Europe, you need a national ID card to claim benefits. Not a huge problem. One card, one set of benefits.

 

In the UK you do not need a national identity (or any other identity) card to get benefits. - I am light-skinned and I was not entitled to claim benefits.

 

Why do you think so many people cross so many European countries to get to the UK?

 

More Harold Wilson than Moses: Sit on your asses. light up a camel this IS the promised land.

 

Life in the UK is good - and all the 'social bits' - the bits that the Brits are accustomed to paying for - are free!

 

Back to the original question:

 

A tram made in Sheffield would be very bit as good as one made in Mannheim. Unfortunately, the people (skilled engineers, fitters and mechanics) who made the tram in Sheffield would have to earn enough to pay for the arseholes who sit around expecting (indeed, demanding) that the world pay them a living.

 

The tram made in Sheffield would be made to exactly the same specifications (and manufactured to the same standard) as the one in Mannheim, but it would cost 50% more.

 

Furthermore, the people who made it would be paid 30% less.

 

British workers are every bit as good as their foreign counterparts, but British workers have to support (per capita) more non-workers than do German workers. People who buy British goods pay a premium to support those who do not wish to work.