SLOW driving is DANGEROUS

[Cyclone]

OTOH has it really been totally safe for 20 years? Perhaps thats why they changed it.

 

Is it any more safe now?

[Cyclone]

As in any speed reduction they are hoping to move the prevailing, average speed down (85th percentile ... and all that) so that fewer drivers push themselves beyond their perceived capabilities and beyond the vehicle's and road surface's available grip.

I.e they are trying to build in a safety margin that drivers, when it was NSL, weren't taking for themselves. The end result, they hope, is better driver outcomes.

 

That could be the motive.

 

Or it could be that the end result, they hope, is more £££ in their coffers.

[L00b]

As in any speed reduction they are hoping to move the prevailing, average speed down (85th percentile ... and all that) so that fewer drivers push themselves beyond their perceived capabilities and beyond the vehicle's and road surface's available grip.

Is it therefore your position that drivers are, by and large, becoming less and less able to drive, despite being tested on their driving ability?

 

I would understand your point if speed limits were being introduced (i.e. if there was none beforehand), not lowered. Especially not by such a small margin.

 

My understanding of the lowering of speed limits is that it accomodates ever-increasing levels of road congestion.

 

In a roundabout way, this then vindicates the opinion that drivers driving substantially below the speed limit constitute a danger: they create temporary congestions, because tailing drivers bunch up ready to overtake (...maybe) = speed limit should be lowered to mitigate/remove congesting.

 

As an aside, such is vehicle technology these days that, around 60 or even 70 still, pushing a car beyond its capabilities/the road surface's available grip takes some wilful effort. In such cases, maybe Darwinian selection should be left to run its normal course

[nightrider]

You're just being wilfully obtuse.

 

Next you'll be saying that the laws of physics mean that obstacles in the road aren't a danger.

 

Driving slowly alters the behaviour of other drivers in such a way that it creates danger. Hence driving slowly can be dangerous. It's not difficult logic to follow, it is difficult to refute, simply repeating that it isn't dangerous won't prove the logic wrong.

 

alters their behaviour in such a way that it is dangerous. But its them who are dangerous, not the slow driver. No-one forces them to drive in a dangerous way - they could drive at the same speed as the slow driver in front of they want to. Instead they choose to drive in a dangerous manner.

[Cyclone]

That may well be (is in fact), but the slow driver has still contributed to creating the danger, if they were driving correctly then the danger wouldn't exist.

[Cyclone]

Is it therefore your position that drivers are, by and large, becoming less and less able to drive, despite being tested on their driving ability?

 

I would understand your point if speed limits were being introduced (i.e. if there was none beforehand), not lowered. Especially not by such a small margin.

 

My understanding of the lowering of speed limits is that it accomodates ever-increasing levels of road congestion.

 

In a roundabout way, this then vindicates the opinion that drivers driving substantially below the speed limit constitute a danger: they create temporary congestions, because tailing drivers bunch up ready to overtake (...maybe) = speed limit should be lowered to mitigate/remove congesting.

 

As an aside, such is vehicle technology these days that, around 60 or even 70 still, pushing a car beyond its capabilities/the road surface's available grip takes some wilful effort. In such cases, maybe Darwinian selection should be left to run its normal course

 

It's entirely possible to push the car beyond it's limit at even 50 mph on the snake. Some bends you struggle to maintain 30 through, and I have a grippy car.

But I fail to see how changing the limit to 50 will have made that road any safer. The people who crashed in the past were either trying to take a corner too fast (something that a 50 limit won't stop or affect) or speeding (something that no limit will affect).

[L00b]

It's entirely possible to push the car beyond it's limit at even 50 mph on the snake. Some bends you struggle to maintain 30 through, and I have a grippy car.

But that is not incompatible with my post (which you seem to have read too literally).

 

It's just common sense (of course a modern car can't take a hairpin bend at 60 or 70), which will indeed take a wilful effort to disregard.

[Cyclone]

I think we're in agreement here anyway L00b, unless I've misread your post you don't think there was much point in changing the limit from 60 to 50 on the snake pass.

 

Some people seem to be arguing that it's safe to drive unreasonably slow simply for the sake of being argumentative. Despite the over aggressive way in which the OP made his point, he did actually have a decent one.

[L00b]

I think we're in agreement here anyway L00b, unless I've misread your post you don't think there was much point in changing the limit from 60 to 50 on the snake pass.

All correct/you haven't misread

Some people seem to be arguing that it's safe to drive unreasonably slow simply for the sake of being argumentative.

Such is the nature of Web forums.

 

That said, I'd pay good money to witness all the posters on here during their daily driving...just being curious about any level of online persona <-> real persona correlation, where driving is concerned

 

By the thread's standard (as well as by that set through so many other 'driving' threads), I must be a terrible driver with suicidal tendencies

[DT Ralge]

30 to 40, as in there speed varied, but was on the excessively slow side.

 

Interesting side point. When the speed limit was changed from 60 to 50, did driving at 60 somehow become unsafe?

There are clear straight sections where IMO 60 is perfectly safe, and corners that can't be taken at 50, so what was the point of changing the limit?

 

And for those hell-bent on getting to the jam at Glossop or Mottram before everyone else, how many miles of straights would you say are in the 11 miles of the Snake Pass that allow you to motor at 60 rather than 50?

Each mile of straight at the higher speed will save a precious 12 seconds. So why is the 50 limit found to be so offensive by some motorists?