SLOW driving is DANGEROUS

[Cyclone]

I did my test before the theory test was introduced. I just had to answer 3 or 4 questions the examiner asked at the end of the practical.

Again, that's just common sense. The 'limits' between e.g. our Mk1 MX5 and recent diesel Volvo estate are, erm, ...lightyears apart, to put it mildly

 

The point is, does your average UK driver gets taught (and tested on) what is aquaplaning? how to adjust safety (braking) distance on the wet? what is and causes over/understeering and how to recover it?

In theory yes. But theory isn't practice obviously, and actually dealing with aquaplaning or a skid is something you just have to learn through experience.

Do other countries require you to go on a race track and practice controlling a skid?

All elementary points which have nothing to do with any specific car, and everything to do with every car and road conditions that apply to all

 

That all goes straight back to my earlier point, namely that with modern 'super-assisted' cars, you'd have to be really pushing it (ordinarily, beyond posted speed limits - allowance made for conditions of course) to get to its limits. Anything else (as in: reach limits within speed limit and accepted norms of driving technique), and clearly the driver appears unfit to drive, as not capable of adjusting their driving to prevalent conditions.

Presumably the slow drivers are driving that way because they have no idea where the limits of their cars are and are worried that going any faster might see them spin off the road and die.

[Cyclone]

Your admission that it is cars overtaking that are dangerous, does rather torpedo your entire argument that it's not them but the slow cars which are the problem.

 

Hardly. If the slow car wasn't there then there would be nothing to overtake.

 

In isolation a slow car on it's own isn't dangerous, obviously.

 

But when you look at how it affects overall road safety it's clear that it's presence has increased the danger.

[alchresearch]

It's not me we're talking about though. It's generally whether that slow moving car increases danger on the road. And since people will overtake and overtaking is more dangerous than not overtaking, it does increase the danger.

 

But that's all down to the actions of the overtaker. He's the one who has increased the danger because he can't wait.

 

When I went to Scarborough last week I must have counted at least a dozen instances where the traffic was doing 55-60 on a 60 limit road but stupid bikers felt the need to get past and force their way into the gaps between cars, forcing people to brake to create a safe braking space.

 

The amusing thing was that five miles down the road they were all parked up in a layby waiting for their mates and they did the whole farce again. And again. All he way from Scarbrough to the A1 near Leeds.

 

So who's to blame there? Overtakers and nobody else. Speed is immaterial, its the overtakers who are taking risks - unneccesary risks - and causing danger where there needn't be any.

[Cyclone]

No, it isn't all down to the actions of the overtaker is it. Look at the bigger picture. If the slow car wasn't there (ie was driving at a reasonable speed) then there wouldn't be an overtaker.

Both drivers increased the danger.

 

I'm not sure what point you think you're making with that anecdote, so you saw some motorcyclists driving badly, that doesn't mean that excessively slow driving isn't dangerous. I'm not arguing that overtaking is safe (it's clearly less safe than not overtaking), or that anyone who overtakes is justified or right (although when passing a slow vehicle they are justified) so I don't understand what your arguing against.

[Waldo]

Is a slow driver responsible for the decisions of other motorists?

 

This seems to be the essence of the argument here.

 

If I am behind a slow driver, and *I* make the decision to overtake (because of my own impatience to get from A to B), and as a consequence of the overtake maneuver there is an accident.

 

Is the accident caused by A) the slow driver, or B) my own decision to overtake?

[Cyclone]

I haven't made any suggestion that they're responsible for the decisions other drivers make.

Those decisions are predictable though, and since even safe overtaking is more dangerous than not overtaking, by creating that obstacle they are increasing the danger.

 

You might as well argue that a giant rock blocking a carriageway isn't creating a danger because the rock isn't responsible for the people who have to go around it. It's a stupid argument.

[alchresearch]

I'm not sure what point you think you're making with that anecdote, so you saw some motorcyclists driving badly

 

Yep, bad driving caused by overtaking.

 

Overtaking is the one thing which can be completely taken out of the danger equation.

[Deltic]

I haven't made any suggestion that they're responsible for the decisions other drivers make.

Those decisions are predictable though, and since even safe overtaking is more dangerous than not overtaking, by creating that obstacle they are increasing the danger.

 

You might as well argue that a giant rock blocking a carriageway isn't creating a danger because the rock isn't responsible for the people who have to go around it. It's a stupid argument.

 

My bold.

 

It's not a similar situation is it? You don't have the option of following the rock at 20 mph. Your options are to proceed round the rock if safe to do so, or find another route.

[Cyclone]

The reaction to a car travelling at 40 mph below the speed limit, or a rock blocking a carriageway are both predictable and the same.

Hence both create the same danger by causing other traffic to pass them.

[Cyclone]

Yep, bad driving caused by overtaking.

 

Overtaking is the one thing which can be completely taken out of the danger equation.

 

We aren't talking about dangerous overtaking per se. A safe overtaking manoeuvre is more dangerous than not over taking. And without the excessively slow vehicle on the road, even safe overtakes won't be necessary and so the road would be safer.

 

There is no way to avoid the fact that the slow vehicle increases the danger on the road.