plekhanov Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Precisely, it's about supply and demand. If there wasn't such an high demand for the skin and flesh of animals, their unnecessary suffering wouldn't be deemed "inhumane" would it. Anyone who takes pleasure from wearing animal skins and eating animal flesh is in No position to point the finger and criticize those who use inhumane methods when rearing and killing the animals that accommodate the ever growing demand for the flesh and skin of animals. It's better to just put their suffering to the back of your mind and simply refer to them as food and clothing, otherwise the irony of it all becomes overwhelming. What nonsense, a free range cow or pig raised for slaughter has a massively better life than an animal raised in the monstrous factory farming system it's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. There are firm grounds for someone who consumes meat from animals raised in ways which minimise suffering to oppose factory farming. As the latter generates significant suffering at pretty much every stage of an animals life whilst the former does not. Of course a vegetarian or vegan is on firmer ground but the situation isn't anything like as black and white as you make out. Most people who object to halal slaughter on the supposed grounds of concern for animal cruelty however not only don't object to factory farming they actively pay for it, as such they have no credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andikay Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 But this is my point, whilst there may be issues with Islam which are fundamentally not how I would choose to live, their numbers are not sufficient to affect material change in my way of life even if they wanted to and I'm not convinced they do. As I've said previously if and when that day arises then I'll be the first to sign up to the English Defence League and take a stance against it. The BNP’s numbers aren’t sufficient to affect material change in your way of life; there are more Muslim MP’s that BNP MP’s and at least one of them is hoping for Muslim prime minister within the next thirty years. I doubt either will end up with the power they want, but if I had a choice I would choose BNP over Islam, but as it stands Islam as more chance of gaining power than the BNP. Back to topic, there are many things that haven’t directly affected my life, but that doesn’t mean I should ignore them until they do, I would rather take precautions so they don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 What nonsense, a free range cow or pig raised for slaughter has a massively better life than an animal raised in the monstrous factory farming system it's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. Which is irrelevant as the "monstrous farming factories" still rear an high proportion of cows and pigs. Posted by plekhanov There are firm grounds for someone who consumes meat from animals raised in ways which minimise suffering to oppose factory farming. As the latter generates significant suffering at pretty much every stage of an animals life whilst the former does not. Of course a vegetarian or vegan is on firmer ground but the situation isn't anything like as black and white as you make out. And what are you basing this on?, the sticker on pack no doubt. Posted by plekhanov Most people who object to halal slaughter on the supposed grounds of concern for animal cruelty however not only don't object to factory farming they actively pay for it, as such they have no credibility. Neither do those who criticize inhumane farming methods and seem blissfully unaware that by wearing animal skins and eating animal flesh they are increasing the demand which in turn results in more animals being reared in inhumane conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Which is irrelevant as the "monstrous farming factories" still rear an high proportion of cows and pigs. So what? An individual is only responsible for their actions, someone who only eats meat from animals that were raised is as cruelty free conditions as possible is not responsible for all the animals raised in other ways. And what are you basing this on?, the sticker on pack no doubt. As a vegetarian, I avoid meat going off the the pack, the vegans I know avoid animal products in the same manner. Why should it be any different for those who want to eat meat from animals that had pleasant lives? Neither do those who criticize inhumane farming methods and seem blissfully unaware that by wearing animal skins and eating animal flesh they are increasing the demand which in turn results in more animals being reared in inhumane conditions. What nonsense people who only buy meat certified by the RSPCA or similar are increasing demand for low cruelty meat & leather. They are in no way increasing the demand for factory farmed animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 hahaha its funny how its STILL muslims which people associate with terrorism even though the latest and one of the worst was perpetrated by a blonde haired far right chiristian fundamentalist norwegian some people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mapleboy Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Re the OP. I second what Halibut said in post 2, allowing that I find all religion ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Muslims won't marry people who are not Muslim. The religion encourages one to have a large family. Muslims don't drink. The UK rewards breeding, and punishes drinking. I'm British and I drink. My lifestyle and that of people like myself is taxed heavily, whilst the Muslim lifestyle is rewarded. I cannot integrate with the Muslim society, unless I convert, the woman I may wish to marry cannot convert, without being disowned and possibly killed by her family. The Muslim has an advantage, and he generally has more children. The Muslims will increases as a proportion of the population, and accumulate vast amounts of wealth at the same time. The Muslim lives for the benefit of other Muslims, they segregate themselves. You can't integrate with them. They have a very nationalistic/protectionist way of life, very successful to be honest. But it ain't for me. And materially I will lose as they gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 what has islam done for me?, hmmmmm drove my bus / taxi served me in shops seen me at the doctors / hospital been my teacher been my friend as kids walked past me in busy streets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Muslims won't marry people who are not Muslim. The religion encourages one to have a large family. Muslims don't drink. The UK rewards breeding, and punishes drinking. I'm British and I drink. My lifestyle and that of people like myself is taxed heavily, whilst the Muslim lifestyle is rewarded. I cannot integrate with the Muslim society, unless I convert, the woman I may wish to marry cannot convert, without being disowned and possibly killed by her family. The Muslim has an advantage, and he generally has more children. The Muslims will increases as a proportion of the population, and accumulate vast amounts of wealth at the same time. The Muslim lives for the benefit of other Muslims, they segregate themselves. You can't integrate with them. They have a very nationalistic/protectionist way of life, very successful to be honest. But it ain't for me. And materially I will lose as they gain. sigh, same old misinformation as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 what has islam done for me?, hmmmmm drove my bus / taxi served me in shops seen me at the doctors / hospital been my teacher been my friend as kids walked past me in busy streets Islam hasn't done that, people have, some of whom will be Muslim. Surely that's completely different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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