New World Order

[Sheffvan 1]

Oh stop please, my sides are splitting.

are you all aged about 12 ?

 

We are just continuing the sillyness started by yourself and the rest of the tin foil hat bridgade on here. :hihi:

[Sheffvan 1]

He IS alive. I saw him last year in Vegas playing at the MGM Grand on the 6:00 PM show

At 8:0000 PM the same day he appeared at the Lido Amphitheatre in Palm Springs, California and the following day he appeared on Blackpool Pier on the Early Show

For a man of 76 he sure manages to get around fast enough.

 

:hihi:

[Smithster]

That is only partly true. If people were only interested in thinking the same as everyone else, gossip, rumour and secrecy wouldn't be such important aspects of human life. On top of that, there is the pressing need for humans to share anything that they know which others don't, something which the millions of people involved in all of the main conspiracies have suddenly lost.

 

Hmmm. I'm not sure that the idea of rumour and gossip can really be compared to what I'm referring to though. Everybody loves a bit of gossip and wants to be the first one to know something (well, nearly everybody) but that isn't the same thing at all as expressing an opinion which correlates with the populist view in order to 'fit in' and not stand out. The need for acceptance is very powerful in modern human behaviour.

 

I see two more important traits in human psychology which have caused the modern prevalence in conspiracy theories:

 

1) The ability, nay, requirement, for the human mind to find connections and patterns in random data. And once a pattern has been decided on, it's very difficult to remove that from the mind.

 

2) The need to understand everything - even if we don't have the required background knowledge needed to take an event from appearing to be based on magic to being based on a simple and repeatable model.

 

I agree particularly with the first one - that many people once they have made up their minds that they believe something to be true will take an awful lot of convincing otherwise. Not many people can claim to have a truly open mind, whether they realise it or not.

 

I'm sorry, but the logistics required for all of the main conspiracies makes them all but impossible. I asked on a previous thread about 9/11 "why couldn't the US Government / NWO / Bilderberg / whoever was in charge, recruit some muslims to actually hijack and fly planes into the towers? After all, there are enough people out there who would do it given the chance, and it'd be far easier than to fake it.". None of the proponents could (or would) answer. The other thing lacking from most of the conspiracies is a coherent timeline and story for the events - 7/7, we're told the bombers went to Canary Wharf and were shot by Police in the street, yet there's no reasoning behind why they went there, where they'd been in the meantime, why they didn't just try and get out of London, why the police would shoot them in the street (as opposed to bundling them into a van and shooting them in a warehouse), or why out of the tens of thousands of people who work there, only one person's friend's brother's co-worker ever saw this happen. I've been told though, that we don't need no story or timeline, because all the conspiracy theorists are trying to do is prove to us sheep that the official story is wrong, what actually happened is not a concern.

 

Not necessarily. If you subscribe to the idea that the towers were brought down with demolition explosives etc... then yes I agree. There would need to be far too many people in on it and the law of averages dictates that at least one of them would have gone public about it by now. If the world's most powerful media organisation can't even keep a lid on a relatively small phone-hacking scandal then what hope would there be to silence the thousands of people involved in something as big as 9/11? Virtually none.

 

However - and I want to just make it absolutely clear here that this is not what I firmly believe, I am merely pointing out how it could have been done without the need for thousands of people to be a part of the masquerade - there is an alternative option to consider.... That Bush and his cronies conspired with Bin Laden who then recruited some disaffected young Muslims to carry it out believing that they were in fact acting for his global jihadist movement. In this scenario, the amount of people required to be in on it would be very small indeed, and they would all have a vested interest in keeping quiet about it as well.

 

This may seem far-fetched to a lot of people, and I fully expect to get the usual tinfoil hat comments here as well, but this is why I believe that this explanation is not outside the realms of possibility...

 

In 1997 a thinktank called Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was set up by a group of leading neocons. Their statement of principles can be found here but the crux of it is as follows...

 

As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?

 

We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.

 

But it is the next paragraph that should be of most concern....

 

Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

 

Essentially what they were advocating was a new 'pre-emptive strike' policy of invading any country that they believed could potentially become a threat to the USA in the future.

 

In September 2000, a report was published by PNAC, co-authored by leading members of the neocon movement who would go on to be key players in the GW Bush administration such as Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, called Rebuilding America's Defenses. The report mostly consists of proposals for how the US military should be reformed to suit the geopolitics of the post-cold war era and how the proposed new pro-active foreign policy could be implemented globally, and the full document can be read here, but hidden away in one of the pages is this little nugget...

 

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalysing event - like a new Pearl Harbour

 

Exactly one year later they got their new Pearl Harbour.

 

It is perhaps worth mentioning at this point that as well as the people I mentioned above, one of the founding members of the PNAC was one Jeb Bush - brother of GW Bush and Governor of Florida, the state where the re-count in the presidential election allowed Dubya to steal victory from the jaws of defeat.

 

As we now know, the Bush family, which has a long history within global finance (in fact Prescott Bush - GW's grandfather - had very large business dealings with a company that provided sizeable funding to the nazis during WWII) have very close ties to the Bin Laden family, some of whom were given extra special dispensation to fly out of the US the day after the attacks despite the supposed total closure of the entire American airspace. It has also been reported that prior to 9/11, Osama himself was treated at an American hospital in Dubai where he even met with the local CIA station chief, so they obviously weren't that bothered about capturing him then even though he was apparently wanted in connection with the attack on the USS Cole.

 

When Dubya finally caved in and agreed to the public clamour for an independent investigation into the events of 9/11, he personally chose Philip Zelikow as the man to head up the commission. Here is a man who was part of GWB's transition team when he took over at the Whitehouse and was involved in briefing the incoming defense and security staff, was a close friend of National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice, and whose academic expertise was in how the media could be used to influence the public perception of global events in order to shape government policy. His commission's final report, surprisingly, doesn't even make one single reference to WTC Building 7 - one of the most controversial aspects of the whole story.

 

Who ultimately benefited? Well the US arms industry for starters. Then there is Dick Cheney's Haliburton who have made $billions from the rebuilding contracts in Iraq. Larry Silverstein, another friend and business assocoiate of the Bush family, having acquired the WTC for a down payment of around $125million eventually received an insurance payout of $7.3billion and secured all rights to rebuild on the site (and it is probably also worth mentioning that before the attacks he was looking at a bill of something like $2billion to remove all of the asbestos from the WTC buildings). The Iraqi oilfields are now in either direct or indirect control of American companies. Somebody made an absolute fortune on 'put options' by effectively betting that stock in the airlines involved would drop dramatically, conveniently the day before the attacks. UNOCAL got to build their lucrative oil pipeline through Afghanistan which the Taliban had so fiercely opposed prior to 9/11 as well.

 

Is all of that just coincidence????????

[callippo]

And that is what the agenda for a lot of "conspiracy theory" is - "it was the jews what done it".

 

never forget that it's this kind of racism, antisemitism, that motivates these people in many cases to be the keyboard commandos they are. It's why they hate Israel. They think the notion of self-determination for Jews is totally abhorrent on racist grounds. Then they seek to try to associate with 'left wing' causes, hence the 'resistance' handles, the pictures of Che Guevara, etc. They're looking for 'useful idiot' allies on the left, who dislike the United States and the west so much, they might ignore that they've put their lot in with a bunch of closet Muslim fundamentalists which is against everything the left has tried to do since the Enlightenment. They do it to try to disguise the racism. It's just totally appalling. If it was racism against blacks same way, they'd just be instantly banned from these kind of web forums.

[vResistance]

And that is what the agenda for a lot of "conspiracy theory" is - "it was the jews what done it".

 

Well I guess I've done well not to be accused of being anti Jewish so far.

 

Mention a Jew and look what happens

[vResistance]

never forget that it's this kind of racism, antisemitism, that motivates these people in many cases to be the keyboard commandos they are. It's why they hate Israel. They think the notion of self-determination for Jews is totally abhorrent on racist grounds. Then they seek to try to associate with 'left wing' causes, hence the 'resistance' handles, the pictures of Che Guevara, etc. They're looking for 'useful idiot' allies on the left, who dislike the United States and the west so much, they might ignore that they've put their lot in with a bunch of closet Muslim fundamentalists which is against everything the left has tried to do since the Enlightenment. They do it to try to disguise the racism. It's just totally appalling. If it was racism against blacks same way, they'd just be instantly banned from these kind of web forums.

 

I don't hate any country, it's people or culture, I hate certain individuals.

[Phanerothyme]

If he managed to miss his target so spectacularly on his first attempt, I would suggest the chances that he could successfully perform the manoeuvre that he allegedly did in order to hit the one side of The Pentagon that had by far the best access for emergency vehicles, and also happened to be unoccupied due to refurbishment at the time (convenient huh?), would be virtually nil.

 

Like HeadingNorth claimed - look for the simpler explanation. If a man who, according to his flying instructor, could 'barely fly a single-engined plane in a straight line' was at the controls of that plane then I am the King of Narnia.

 

 

Granted. So who do you think was at the controls, and more importantly, does it make any difference?

[callippo]

I don't hate any country, it's people or culture, I hate certain individuals.

 

unfortunately for you, your posts show that you are a racist and hate Jews. That's your primary motivation. The putting on the left-wing cloak to try to hide it, isn't going to fool anyone.

[Longcol]

Well I guess I've done well not to be accused of being anti Jewish so far.

 

Mention a Jew and look what happens

 

Oh c'mon v - you've mentioned "Israeli owned security companies" on other threads (7/7) as if it had significance. And one of your "heroes" pushes the "Protocols".

 

Stop being so naive as to the agenda of some "truthseekers".

[Longcol]

 

I certainly don't advocate the idea that national states are the 'natural' order of things, nor would I suggest that global governance is, quite the opposite in fact, but that's a different matter! I was simply stating what the concept of the 'New World Order' actually entails becasue very few others on here actually seem to know about or understand it (Smithster and Anna B being the rare exceptions).

 

 

Two people essentially say "good post" and they know or understand the argument?

 

You flatter them and yourself.