CXC3000 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 If I don't like something and find it abhorrent, whatever its provenance, do I not have a right to criticise it, or at the very least, open up a debate about it? What about the actions of the Norwegian nutter? Is it OK to condemn him because he's not associated with Islam? You certainly can engage in any criticism you like, but it must be done constructively (not with hatred or malice). That's why the likes of M Phillips are taken with a huge pinch of salt; the only people who think she's 'reasonable' are the anti-Muslims (like the BNP/EDL crowd). She appeals to the ignorant masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrod Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Leave Islam and Muslims alone, and they'll do the same. Stop provoking and attacking them for no other reason than for their Belief.Is that the only reason they are the subject of so much debate, or is it perhaps because they despise the West in which so many of them choose to live, and we have to spent hundreds of millions of our national budget on preventing them from murdering us? If we just 'leave them alone', they will carry on murdering people. Perhaps they should return to their countries of origin if they truly wish to be left alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CXC3000 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Leave Islam and Muslims alone, and they'll do the same. Stop provoking and attacking them for no other reason than for their Belief. Is that the only reason they are the subject of so much debate, or is it perhaps because they despise the West in which so many of them choose to live, and we have to spent hundreds of millions of our national budget on preventing them from murdering us? Lol! - such nonsense, it's actually quite unbelievable (and sad). Let me guess: you're a Daily Mail reader and like to frequent far-right and anti-Muslim websites ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 It is interesting how they take out of context and twist passages to build their argument, and at the same time ignore major obvious themes. That is not what's happened here at all though. Bassman put forward a verse which contained the phrase: "And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them." CXC responded by strongly implying that it was a metaphor and that Bassman just didn't understand it. I suspected that he was lying, so I asked him what he thinks it was a metaphor for and he has been unable to answer because I was right and he was lying. You are trying to raise a different issue. You're wrong anyway, and I'll gladly humor you too, but lets not get the two issues confused. Please tell me, in what context does that passage not mean 'beat your wife if she doesn't obey you'. Because that is exactly what it says, and it fits perfectly in context with the surrounding verses. Tell me, what have I missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CXC3000 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 "And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them." CXC responded by strongly implying that it was a metaphor and that Bassman just didn't understand it. I suspected that he was lying, so I asked him what he thinks it was a metaphor for and he has been unable to answer because I was right and he was lying. Nope; it's a really bad translation; many Scholars have said the Verse in qeuestion means to 'leave them' or 'go away' from them. Only the anti-Muslims will think otherwise. BTW, did you read this post of mine about how wives in Islam should be treated : http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7931030&postcount=36 Let me know what you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrod Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Lol! - such nonsense, it's actually quite unbelievable (and sad).Nonsense and unbelievable you say? So is it nonsense that we have had to massively adjust our airport screening procedures? That we have had to expand our counter-terrorism activities? That we have apprehended numerous extremists Muslims planning atriocities against their adopted countrymen? Is it unbelievable nonsense that Muslims extremists killed people in New York and on London trains and buses? Or that they have planned to do similar things again? Or that Muslim clerics have been convicted of inciting hatred? Let me guess: you're a Daily Mail reader and like to frequent far-right and anti-Muslim websites ? No, I'm mostly a Daily Telegraph reader and I doubt I could even name a far-right or anti-Muslim website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Nope; it's a really bad translation; many Scholars have said the Verse in qeuestion means to 'leave them' or 'go away' from them.You were claiming it was just a metaphor that Bassman didn't understand. Shall I take the fact that you have now completely changed arguments as a concession that you were lying? Also, I might point out that Bassman put forward several different translations of that verse Only the anti-Muslims will think otherwise.Once again you are lying. There are plenty of Muslim scholars out there who would disagree with you, it is most certainly not just anti-Muslims that translate it that way. Quran.com translates it as 'strike them' Quranexplorer.com gives it as 'scourge them' Quranflash.com Translates it as 'beat her' Those are the top 3 results in google if you search for 'quran online', none of them is anti muslim, they are all pro Islam. BTW, did you read this post of mine about how wives in Islam should be treated :I'm not so interested in that. I'm interested in exposing you as someone who cannot be trusted and is willing to lie to try and win an argument. If you hadn't lied and pretended it was all metaphor I wouldn't even have posted on this thread. In any case those are from the hadiths, everytime I find something distasteful in one of the hadiths any Muslims that I present it to just say that the hadiths don't really count. Trying to have their cake and eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncocker Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I still find it barbaric. I don't believe that victims of crime should play any role in determining punishments for a crime committed against them, that is retribution not justice. I totally agree with you they've been truamatized enough , and you're right its totally barbaric ,but when you see a lovely young girls life ruined just because some halfwit had is ego hurt by something as trivial as being knocked back for a marraige , something drastic as got to be done to stop it happening again,you have to send a message out there, most of these villages are morally barbaric to start with ,I'afraid it's the only thing that would work with these medievil muppets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Well her extreme views aren't confined to Islam alone, she plays to the gallery just like other reactionary journalists although her views on Islam might enjoy some credibility if she wasn't such an ardent advocate of her own religion-Judaism. Jewish writers such as David Aaronvitch articulate on Islam sensibly without the sensational and hateful rhetoric that Phillips so often employs. BoyFriday did I just read that right? Her views lack credibility because she is a Jew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 BoyFriday did I just read that right? No, clearly you didn't, as evidenced by the positive mention of another Jewish writer beneath, which you have also quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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