Sharia law in action

[Wildcat]

I clearly cited book, chapter and verse if anyone wants additional context they can provide it for themselves with ease.

 

You seem to be suggesting that the context of those verses suggests a reading other than an approval of slavery. Please explain to us what the anti-slavery reading is.

 

 

Right so what exactly is the following a "metaphor" for:

 

Ephesians 6:5-9 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

 

9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

 

Because it reads like a straightforward advice about how people should behave, just as the preceding and following verses are.

 

Also what's all this about "parables" how are the passages I quoted part of parables?

 

It would seem to be fairly obviously about faith and the relationship between mankind and God.

 

Strawman I have at no point stated that anything has "a single cause" so please stop being so dishonest and pretending that I did. What I did do is respond to your absurd claim that

 

"Fortunately, such actions [the stoning of female rape victims for "adultery"] are universally condemned by religious leaders"

 

By pointing out that it was religious leaders who sentenced the poor girl in Somalia.

 

As for your pathetic attempt to pretend that Islamist clerics in Somalia aren't religious leaders but "community leaders". They've set up a theocracy, the defining property of a theocracy is that the religious leaders hold political power so there is no distinction between "community" and "religious leader".

 

Causes for pretty everything people do are of course many and varied this in no way justifies your attempts to completely deny that ideology - a category which includes religion - is amongst the causes of peoples actions.

 

Just because I am making points that are generally in opposition doesn't mean every point I make is.

 

Since the self declared Islamic leaders in Somalia are not affording women their religious rights and protections, their relationship to Islam as a whole is like Fred Phelps's relationship with Christianity. They speak for a minority view, an aberration, condemned virtually universally. The explanation for their actions has to account for why they have got their religion so wrong, not got it right. Pointing to their religion as the cause gets things on its head.

[Wildcat]

If you take a sufficiently reductionist approach everything is "fairly non-complex".

 

Regardless of it's supposed simplicity the relationship between Nazi ideology and the extent to which the holocaust (and much else of what the Nazis did) was a planned, logical result of Nazi ideology has inspired decades of debate amongst historians. Yet you have no problem blaming assorted far right ideologies for the unpleasant actions of those of the far right.

 

I don't follow you at all??? The Tea Party aren't Nazis, nor are Islamaphobes. They are to be condemned on quite different grounds.

 

Indeed in some cases Nationalism can be an only solution to a problem, like for example Israel Palestine pragmatically will only be solved with a two state solution.

 

You seem to be creating a simplistic parody of my views to make yours look stronger.

 

Liar. You accused me of; "Trying to reduce it to religion, even more so a specific one is the sociology of the kindergarden."

 

When I never did anything of the kind. In response to CXC3000's claim that demanding rape victims provide witnesses to substantiate their claim has nothing to do with Islam. I simply cited an example of some Muslims who seem to think that has everything to with Islam.

 

CXC3000 then accused me of judging "the entire Faith by a minority's un-Islamic actions" I responded by pointing out that I did no such thing, that I know Islam is highly diverse and amongst other things includes within it "the notion that women who report rapes must be able to provide multiple witnesses to substantiate their claim or be stoned to death for adultery".

 

At no point did I claim that religion alone is to credit or blame for anything. All I did is point out ones of the strands of belief within one particular religion.

 

A strand of belief that is fringe Islam and in direct contradiction with the stories themselves

[Bassman62]

A strand of belief that is fringe Islam and in direct contradiction with the stories themselves

 

Many strands make thread and there are many disgusting, barbaric, sexism against women strands in the koran which is the book that Sharia law originates from and muslims live by.

 

Is there a section in the koran that tells awife/tilth when and how to beat her husband?

 

Can a woman divorce a man by saying I divorce the three times?

 

If a Muslim man was divorced by his wife would he then become the victim of an honour killing?

[mj.scuba]

I was trying to explain the complexity of causal factors involved in misogynistic practices and how blaming religion is simplistic and misses out on the important complexities and causes.

 

Pardon me for butting in your's and Plekhanov long winded theological exchange, but if misogynistic practices are fairly wide spread and common across a religion and the religion is one of the main causal factors which heavily influences the cultures where that religion is followed too, then laying the blame some what at the religion may be simplistic, but simplistic doesn't mean incorrect.

[Frank Sidney]

Many Christians around the world use rape as a weapon in war as well. Maybe you have seen some of the videos of Congolese militias talking?

 

The fact of the matter is women are treated badly all over the world by people of all religions. Something that demonstrates religion is not the cause.

 

The reason for their treatment is a nasty mixture of poverty, exclusion, male insecurity, sexual power relations and no doubt other issues. Trying to reduce it to religion, even more so a specific one is the sociology of the kindergarden.

 

Why the left always attack Christians in defence of Islam? Its a perverse way of looking at things..

[boyfriday]

Why the left always attack Christians in defence of Islam? Its a perverse way of looking at things..

 

I think it's used more by way of analogy, not defending Islam. Few of us here have any idea about living day to day Islam, whereas most of us have an appreciation of what it is to be a Christian (I was brought up one), and we all find abhorrent the activities of some Christians who act out verbatim the words of the Bible, my belief is that ordinary Muslims feel the same way about Islamic fundamentalists or rather I've no reason to believe they don't.

[CXC3000]

In response to CXC3000's claim that demanding rape victims provide witnesses to substantiate their claim has nothing to do with Islam. I simply cited an example of some Muslims who seem to think that has everything to with Islam.

 

'Some' = an extreme, ignorant, un-Islamic minority.

 

CXC3000 then accused me of judging "the entire Faith by a minority's un-Islamic actions"

 

That is correct.

 

I responded by pointing out that I did no such thing...

 

You insinuated that the entire religion is responsible for the mindless and un-Islamic actions of a few.

 

 

that I know Islam is highly diverse and amongst other things includes within it "the notion that women who report rapes must be able to provide multiple witnesses to substantiate their claim or be stoned to death for adultery".

 

Where did you get this from ? - where does it say in the Faith 'rape victims have to provide 4 witnesses otherwise they'll be stoned to death' ?

[Frank Sidney]

I think it's used more by way of analogy, not defending Islam. Few of us here have any idea about living day to day Islam, whereas most of us have an appreciation of what it is to be a Christian (I was brought up one), and we all find abhorrent the activities of some Christians who act out verbatim the words of the Bible, my belief is that ordinary Muslims feel the same way about Islamic fundamentalists or rather I've no reason to believe they don't.

 

Yes but I don't think any Christians would justify stoning a woman to death. All religion is bonkers in my opinion and Christianity was responsible for Catholic Priest child rapists...so...who are they to talk anyway.

 

However, when something happens in a "Christian" country its assumed the perpetrators are "Christians" which is a bit of a long shot these days. If a story breaks about a Muslim stoning; some wag will not comment on this but state, "Yes but is 1289 in West Lothian a Christian woman was burned at the stake for burning her husbands tea"...

 

The two religions violence (church / mosque inspired) are similar but 1000 years apart.

[frank ryan]

eid mubarak everyone.

[Frank Sidney]

eid mubarak everyone.

 

I'm sorry? What does that mean?