Chris_Sleeps Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 This part I agree with, and in some ways they do, but no so much in the UK. In the US, the military clothing is pretty much all made by prisons If you ran a company making military clothing then would you be happy if prisons started competing with you, with their never-ending free labour market? Putting prisoners to work isn't such a great idea when you put them in competition with everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimba Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 If you ran a company making military clothing then would you be happy if prisons started competing with you, with their never-ending free labour market? Putting prisoners to work isn't such a great idea when you put them in competition with everyone else. But Government organisations don't have to be in competition with everyone else, we do put it in the private sector because its cost effective to do so... Given that this work could be done in prisons would probably be more cost effective and make more sense to do given that it is about rehabilitation and keeping someone busy for whatever amount of time, rather that sat around counting the days, would benefit them by giving the mind set of an employee which would make it far easier to keep down a job in the real world. And I have been in prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Given that this work could be done in prisons would probably be more cost effective and make more sense to do given that it is about rehabilitation and keeping someone busy I agree there are huge benefits to working while in prison. My point is that prison labour isn't free market labour, and it is unfair to compete against it. If you have 100 people who must work for nothing more than their meals, then that is unfair to people who aren't criminals who are trying to earn a living. The prison labour of America is terribly unjust, always has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 have you? .(are you bee smith?) No, I haven't and that's the reason why I can't comment. Neither, I suspect, has the op but he deems it fit to believe what he reads in the daily grinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 But Government organisations don't have to be in competition with everyone else, we do put it in the private sector because its cost effective to do so... Given that this work could be done in prisons would probably be more cost effective and make more sense to do given that it is about rehabilitation and keeping someone busy for whatever amount of time, rather that sat around counting the days, would benefit them by giving the mind set of an employee which would make it far easier to keep down a job in the real world. possibly, but to do that now would drive the private sector organisations which currently provide these services out of business, so overall it's probably not going to be cost effective. really, what we're talking about is state sponsored slavery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 But I do agree with the Human Rights point... you have to let them live and eat in a civil place! It's nothing to do with "Human Rights", prison conditions were improved long before human rights were thought of as an issue because those who actually dealt with prisoners realised that if you treated people like animals then at the end of the process you had animals. Punishment without rehabilitation is pointless. There is little gain in locking someone up, then letting them go back into the same environment which turned them into criminals in the first place with even less prospects than they had before. Effective rehabilitation is expensive and it's much easier for politicians to ignore the problem and use the sort of language which appeals to the hard of thinking rather than actually address the issue. Of course, if you don't want rehabilitation then you don't want prisons, you want something which is little better than a death camp, where the survivors are so broken they are incapable of contributing anything meaningful to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredsredhat Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 Human Rights !!! which have just been denied the moment you've committed the crime. I havent done time, nor do i want to but the re-offending rates suggest it isn't working and it isn't enough of a deterrent for the terminally lazy. I have lived in a flat in the past without central heating, only a coal fire to heat the entire place, on such a low apprentices wage that i some evenings i had to put a coat on cos i couldnt afford the electricity bill to run electric heaters. why should criminals have a nice cosy warm cell? if you want heat, work for it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8575034.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimba Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Im betting that the majority of the things we talk of like military uniform is actually produced abroad and the only people who would loose out are the middle men in the contracting of it all. There will be someone in the military or government that puts the work out to tender and the most financially logical bid will get it given that everyone is on a budget, and the best way to keep down costs will be by sourcing the work out of this country. II think it makes far more sense to keep Government contracts and tax payers money in this country where ever possible like many other countries do Im sure. I am not talking about state slavery at all, you give up your liberty when your incarcerated, slavery is making a free man work in my eyes at least. What I am saying is if you want to keep making the quality of life better for prisoners then getting them to pay for it and put something back into society by saving tax money seems very logical and nothing like slavery. You have to think of it more as employment and paying your way than slavery, although Im sure prisoners would argue the slave idea rather than see it as a beneficial way to be rehabilitated and get back into employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimba Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 which have just been denied the moment you've committed the crime. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8575034.stm I know, I was taking the **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Human Rights !!! which have just been denied the moment you've committed the crime. Where does it say that? Your whole argument is based on the massive but common misunderstanding that prison is FOR punishment. Prison IS punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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