GrapeApe Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Like the trash you just posted, remember it's not yet proven it's a bullet from the police you 'mug' Now it seems there's no evidence he even fired a shot. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Now it seems there's no evidence he even fired a shot. Link Your statement is true. The Guardian's headline claim is unverified speculation. What the ballistics experts have actually said is that it may never be possible to determine if Duggan's gun was fired or not. It was an illegally converted replice. No evidence for or against it being fired does not equate to "was not fired." We could go on to argue about the police rules of engagement not actually requiring shots to be fired before they can use their own guns, but that's another topic for another post. I'm more concerned with such a basic failure of logic as the Guardian displays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 If somebody pointed a gun at you and you had a gun in your hand, would you fire at him or would you wait and see whether he was going to fire at you? When the IPCC finally publish the findings of their enquiry, then perhaps we will know what happened. Until then, it's pointless to speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapeApe Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Your statement is true. The Guardian's headline claim is unverified speculation. What the ballistics experts have actually said is that it may never be possible to determine if Duggan's gun was fired or not. It was an illegally converted replice. No evidence for or against it being fired does not equate to "was not fired." We could go on to argue about the police rules of engagement not actually requiring shots to be fired before they can use their own guns, but that's another topic for another post. I'm more concerned with such a basic failure of logic as the Guardian displays. Nevertheless a far cry from the early "exchange of fire" reports jumped on by many on here to justify the shooting. The cab driver's testimony will be crucial. This may have been an execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Nevertheless a far cry from the early "exchange of fire" reports jumped on by many on here to justify the shooting. The cab driver's testimony will be crucial. This may have been an execution. No it wasn't an execution. The young lad was carrying a gun, at what point does he become a threat to others? The police are allowed to open fire if they believe that he was a threat to human life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clownaround Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Surely the police have to follow some sort of JSP and the police officer shot his own colleague. In my oppinnion that was not a clear shot and should never have been fired. It should be classed as a negligent discharge and the officer put on trial for endangering life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Surely the police have to follow some sort of JSP and the police officer shot his own colleague. In my oppinnion that was not a clear shot and should never have been fired. It should be classed as a negligent discharge and the officer put on trial for endangering life. They may yet decide to class it as such. The investigation has not concluded. (Indeed, they haven't yet proven where the bullet lodged in the radio came from. They have said it's consistent with police issue, but they don't know who fired it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 No it wasn't an execution. The young lad was carrying a gun, at what point does he become a threat to others? The police are allowed to open fire if they believe that he was a threat to human life.Did duggan deserve to die yes if he was carrying a gun as he was known to, did he contribute to his own demise definately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrod Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 . . This may have been an execution.Absolute nonsense, the Police do not do that and to suggest as much is asinine to say the least. UK Police firearms training is intense and conducted to the highest standard. Their rules of engagement are very strict in terms of when they can open fire; suffice to say that unless they believe the target is in the immediate process of causing life threatening harm to them or the public, they cannot fire. For example, somebody with a gun in his hand is not enough - he has to seem to be turning the gun at the Police/public before they can engage. The situation becomes grey when somebody is partly obscured and the officers involved on the ground cannot see clearly what the subject is doing. They then have to make very difficult decisions in split seconds as to whether there is risk to innocent life and whether to fire. Of course, whatever they do they're subsequently criticised/attacked by the anti-establishment idiots who jump at every opportunity to defame the Police (invariably people who wouldn't have the spine to do the job themselves). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Like the trash you just posted, remember it's not yet proven it's a bullet from the police you 'mug' It has now - it was fired from a H&K MP5, standard police issue. The reports so far indicate that a non police firearm has been recovered at the scene. There is speculation about the recovered bullet, and we should wait for the full IPCC report before commenting further I think. But - remember, if a weapon has even been pointed at the officers, they have a right in law to act to protect their own lives or others. Maybe a case of 'live by the sword.........' According to the news last night, it was proved to be a fully loaded Brunei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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