MrSmith Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I'm not saying that Osborne is planning to pump in £5bn - it was a hypothetical question based on what it would cost to revert more towards a partial imputation system that would give pension funds the kind of tax breaks they relied on 1973-97. I don't think we can afford it to be honest and especially so in a low interest rate environment where people could be tempted towards excessive (lower-taxed) dividends taking. The point about good times and bad times applies to individuals, employers and pension funds too. They should be allowing for the bad times. If funds fall in value during stock market dips that is categorically not the fault of the tax regime. It perhaps indicates poorly targeted investment and a lack of smoothing mechanisms. It's a bit rich for funds to start moaning when it is their own poor investment decisions that can damage funds way more than any chancellor can. Finally, I do agree that this in typical Gordon Brown fashion was poorly explained and I think that allowed a kind of PR offensive to gather steam - industry and the Tories are very good at that sort of thing. If the average man in the street had fully realised the tax changes were partly about pension fund addiction to tax rebates for dividends that had often never had tax paid on them in the first place then there would have been a lot more support. I agree but unfortunately many individuals are incapable of making good financial decisions and many people also believed the man at the top when he said the good times would never end. Companies are usually more interested in profit than whether their product is suitable for an individual, so it’s left to the government to regulate industries to make sure people are well informed and don’t get ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Then you will need to learn about it. Google is good. Even in 2007 there were reports of a net surplus in FTSE 100 pension funds. Once you understand that then you will realise that Brown was right to withdraw relief on private pensions. Several years after withdrawing relief the funds of top 100 companies were in net surplus. Was it right for the taxpayer to continue supporting that through tax breaks? You still haven't explained how a pension with no guaranteed benefit can be in surplus...? If it can be then doesn't the opposite apply.. ie it can be underfunded? You do know the diiference between "defined benefit" and "defined contribution" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 You still haven't explained how a pension with no guaranteed benefit can be in surplus...? If it can be then doesn't the opposite apply.. ie it can be underfunded? You do know the diiference between "defined benefit" and "defined contribution" ? er, no I haven't explained it because I suggested you google it. Here is what to google ftse 100 pension surplus 2007 Tsk...some people think Sheffield Forum IS the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 er, no I haven't explained it because I suggested you google it. Here is what to google ftse 100 pension surplus 2007 Tsk...some people think Sheffield Forum IS the internet. That doesn't show how a defined contribution pension can be in surplus...tsk and here's me thinking you knew what you were talking about y'see Gordon not only took money out of pensions in surplus but also out of those that had no defined benefit...what I'm saying is that my pension could never have been in surplus 'cos there wasn't a defined payment at the end...but you knew that all along..not everyone works for a ftse100 company...in fact most of us don't..so the fact they were in surplus has no bearing on my pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 You still haven't explained how a pension with no guaranteed benefit can be in surplus...? If it can be then doesn't the opposite apply.. ie it can be underfunded? You do know the diiference between "defined benefit" and "defined contribution" ? If you looked at the results list from your Google you will see one from Deloitte. There sre contact details on their site and you can email them to query their methodology. Yes I am aware of the different types of pension and in 2007 there would have been a mix of different types for FTSE 100 companies. Just as in other parts of the economy. But.....it doesn't really matter what type of pension you had, if you or your company failed to plug the gaps or your fund was badly invested then the problem is not with the tax regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I agree but unfortunately many individuals are incapable of making good financial decisions and many people also believed the man at the top when he said the good times would never end. Companies are usually more interested in profit than whether their product is suitable for an individual, so it’s left to the government to regulate industries to make sure people are well informed and don’t get ripped off. maybe they should tell you how things work in words what we understand and not in gobbledegook which only a solicitor understands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Quantitative easing will be required to force the stock markets back up, the pensions will rise nominally, but fall in real terms as they fail to keep up with inflation. Pensions are getting wiped out. So the FTSE is up today (and for the month), the expected QE (money printing) was priced in. As money supply expands, the FTSE shall rise. Pensions are falling in real terms though. They cannot be paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3IIcdCV2Xo&feature=player_embedded BOOM! Monthly pension of £1124 reduced to £626. Pensions getting wiped out, literally, whilst inflation reduces PPP. But what do you expect? http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=837157 It was going to happen, it is happening, and pretty soon it will have happened. And for what? So that your child might spend half of his working life on a property that cosists of less than 1000 hours labour so that your property retains its 'nominal' value. Nominal GDP might be increasing, but living standards are falling. Wake up people. You were being robbed, and now you have! And your children remain impoverished. They canny even afford to have their own children, we need to import workers for we cannot afford to breed our own! Pound sterling will soon be pound starving. What you going to do? The future of this country is in the youth. I suggest you make friends with them. They aren't going to be spending 10*income to buy your house anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 One of the investments within my pension is up 30% on this time last year. The other investments are between +3% and -2% of their value this time last year. Overall I don't think that's too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Britain is entering ‘a different world in pensions’ as the value of gold-plated retirement payouts to loyal workers goes into freefall, a Government minister warns today. Official figures show the value of the average defined benefit pension, such as final salary schemes, will peak this year at £7,100 per annum. But the Department for Work and Pensions analysis predicts this figure will fall every year for the next half century. By 2060, the average value will be just £2,400 a year. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123781/Government-warns-gold-plated-pension-payouts-loyal-workers-going-freefall.html#ixzz1qslzrZz9 WIPEOUT! Both nominally and vs inflation. Opt out of all pension schemes now if you are below 50. Do not waste your hard earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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